Please explain further how it worked for those that have not seen it.autogyro wrote:I raced that way for a number of years on the short ovals in hot rods.
It works very well and has for years.
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Please explain further how it worked for those that have not seen it.autogyro wrote:I raced that way for a number of years on the short ovals in hot rods.
It works very well and has for years.
No. Teams would develop their cars to do the overtaking. This is, a fast car that can follow closely another one. Rules could help here if they reduced the total amount of available downforce to very low values. Races should be long enough to permit the best car to finish the job. Of course if the driver is not as good in overtaking he might not get to the front even in the fastest car.Pandamasque wrote:@ readonly & feynman so the one who builds the fastest (in clean air) car and does the overtaking in the pitlane wins!
the way it works here is you set a qualy time then they have heat races 6 to 10 cars reverse order starts top 2-4 move on to the A main the rest get spread across that B-D mains top two from each main move into the next main. I think your qualy time sets your place in the A if you made it from a heat race. If you come from a lower main you start at the back.readonly wrote:Please explain further how it worked for those that have not seen it.autogyro wrote:I raced that way for a number of years on the short ovals in hot rods.
It works very well and has for years.
Yes, Saturdays. There are so many options.feynman wrote:Yes nipo, Saturday afternoon is tricky.
I don't think CVC and their eye-watering debt would be all that keen to be offering a refund to broadcasters for roughly 30% less sellable track-time. Nor would the circuits, with their throats being cut by FOM as it is, welcome trying to flog tickets for a short two-day weekend (Saturday practice/Sunday race). The mechanics would probably dig it though.
Some sort of sprint race? I think it detracts too much from the main-event, the climax of the weekend, the uniqueness. It's *THE* Grand Prix, not a Grand Prix, oh and a Petit Prix the day before. (Although it would be fun to stick them all in available GP2 cars, Porsches or Aussie V8s, for a cash prize, see who's really all that).
OK, If we are using championship points to decide your starting grid position, then we still run the current knockout qualifying (which, when the laptimes get a bit closer again, is definitely good TV value).
But use this classification to instead give 23 (for pole) down to 0 (last place) "delta points"
These aren't real points, they don't count for anything except being applied as a temporary modifier, subtracted from the driver's championship points ... which means hot one-lappers can use their raw pace to try and move themselves a bit further up the grid.
FOM TV graphics can display the Q times as usual, so we don't lose that, but the other side of the screen can show in real-time what this all means for the grid.
Two drivers with roughly the same championship points, if one significantly outqualifies the other, he would "reduce" his points, meaning he moves himself a bit further up the reverse-grid, a little bit nearer the real points that get handed-out on Sunday.
Close-run squabbles up and down the field all still have something very real worth fighting for, so Saturday qualifying should still be exciting and still mean something (and getting the rain-radar wrong would still have serious consequences, as you remain nailed to the very last row).
Also neatly solves the problem of who lines up where for the first race of a new season.
At the start of the season, sorta, but that would actually be quite helpful to damp-down the early wild swings till people start scoring regular points and we get a proper picture of the championship.readonly wrote: I like your idea but it might just break everything that reversed grids are made for.
## Driver WDC-Q DeltaPoints Rank 1 Felipe Massa 39-17 22 2 Fernando Alonso 37-21 16 2 Sebastian Vettel 37-23 14 4 Jenson Button 35-19 14 5 Nico Rosberg 35-20 15 6 Lewis Hamilton 31-18 13 7 Robert Kubica 30-16 14 8 Mark Webber 24-22 2 9 Adrian Sutil 10-14 -4 10 Michael Schumacher 9-15 -4 11 Vitantonio Liuzzi 8- 6 2 12 Rubens Barrichello 5-13 -8 13 Jaime Alguersuari 2-12 -10 14 Nico Hülkenberg 1 -8 -7 15 Bruno Senna 0 -1 -1 15 Sebastien Buemi 0-11 -11 15 Vitaly Petrov 0-10 -10 15 Jarno Trulli 0 -4 -4 15 Heikki Kovalainen 0 -3 -3 15 Karun Chandhok 0 -0 0 15 Pedro de la Rosa 0 -7 -7 15 Kamui Kobyashi 0 -9 -9 15 Timo Glock 0 -5 -5 15 Lucas di Grassi 0 -2 -2
Buemi Petrov Alguersuari Kobayashi Barrichello De La Rosa Hulkenberg Glock Trulli Schumacher Sutil Kovalainen Di Grassi Senna Chandhok Liuzzi Webber Hamilton Kubica Button Vettel Rosberg Alonso MassaWhich looks quite racy.
I'm not so sure. On paper your idea works. But I wonder what would someone like Brawn think about designing a car for overtaking at the expense of ultimate speed. Surely the engineers would fine a way around the rules yet again. Overtaking in the pits is one, and it has been done for awhile now (French GP '04 being the ultimate example).readonly wrote:No. Teams would develop their cars to do the overtaking. This is, a fast car that can follow closely another one. Rules could help here if they reduced the total amount of available downforce to very low values. Races should be long enough to permit the best car to finish the job. Of course if the driver is not as good in overtaking he might not get to the front even in the fastest car.Pandamasque wrote:@ readonly & feynman so the one who builds the fastest (in clean air) car and does the overtaking in the pitlane wins!
Now I can see your point. If the points difference in the WDC standing is too big between two drivers then the best one will have no chance to start ahead of the worse one. If they have a short difference then Saturday decides the starting order. This idea may get much more acceptance among those that are critics of the idea. That is why I like it. It could make the reverse lineup a reality. Though I would prefer to see drivers with more points behind drivers with less points because, at the race, the best of any pair of teammates would have to actually show it by overtaking his teammate too.feynman wrote:At the start of the season, sorta, but that would actually be quite helpful to damp-down the early wild swings till people start scoring regular points and we get a proper picture of the championship.readonly wrote: I like your idea but it might just break everything that reversed grids are made for.
But with 25 points awarded for a win, as the season builds, the -23 for qualifying will start to diminish in relative strength, it soon won't buy you as many places as it used to. The championship contenders, the usul suspects, will soon find themselves getting pinned back near the tail of the grid, like we kinda wanted.
[...]
So even quite early-on, 3 races, the modifier is not propelling cars all the way back up the grid, but still it remains vitally important to do a fast lap on Saturday compared to your championship rivals.
If you could overtake everyone in just one pit stop then you are right, but normally you can only make one or maybe two overtakings during a pit stop. Considering cars pit once or twice at each race, they would be able to overtake only a few others.Pandamasque wrote:I'm not so sure. On paper your idea works. But I wonder what would someone like Brawn think about designing a car for overtaking at the expense of ultimate speed. Surely the engineers would fine a way around the rules yet again. Overtaking in the pits is one, and it has been done for awhile now (French GP '04 being the ultimate example).readonly wrote:No. Teams would develop their cars to do the overtaking. This is, a fast car that can follow closely another one. Rules could help here if they reduced the total amount of available downforce to very low values. Races should be long enough to permit the best car to finish the job. Of course if the driver is not as good in overtaking he might not get to the front even in the fastest car.Pandamasque wrote:@ readonly & feynman so the one who builds the fastest (in clean air) car and does the overtaking in the pitlane wins!
What do you think the top teams' arguments would be?Shrek wrote:How about inverting the first six or so like in Championship Off Road Racing.
For me personally it would be cool inverting the whole field but it won't happen because the top teams will argue about it.
They would almost certainly TRY and use the "safety" argument; "its not safe having all the fast cars start behind the slow ones.What do you think the top teams' arguments would be?
