2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[zeph]

As I said, 2007 was the turning point for Mclaren. After spygate, Mercedes decided that Mclaren was to become just another customer.

That's not really what happened. Friction between Mercedes and McLaren existed on several levels.


First there was the Mercedes SLR road car project that caused a lot of frustration on both sides.

Mercedes had a 40% stake in McLaren, and wanted to buy the F1 team to rebrand it as a Mercedes works team. Ron Dennis refused.

McLaren had road car ambitions and developed the MP4-12C. Mercedes did not like that, as they viewed it as direct competition for their high-end sports cars.

When Honda withdrew from F1 at the end of 2008, their team principal Ross Brawn took over the team, minus the engine. He asked Mercedes for theirs, but McLaren had a veto. Their then-team principal Martin Whitmarsh agreed to let BrawnGP use the Merc engines for 2009, and Brawn bagged the double.

Mercedes had wanted to enter F1 as a works team anyway (originally by buying McLaren), and they scooped up BrawnGP at the end of 2009, gradually selling off their 40% in McLaren over the next four years.

And finally, when it became clear to Mercedes that the team they bought wasn't as good as their 2009 performance had suggested, they methodically started luring away technical staff from McLaren.

[Xero]

The biggest question now is, who is going to bankroll McLaren...
from 1980 to 1996-ish it was Philip Morris, then from 1997-ish to 2012 Mercedes (then a few difficult years) and Honda for the past three years.

besides the trouble they've got themselves in with being a car manufacturer now (which implies they should make their own PU, or at least, as they did with Porsche, outsource it), no big sportscar brand want's to link with them.

If Porsche/VW, BMW or Toyota/Lexus should make a choice, they would go and talk with RedBull over McLaren in a heartbeat (even if RB hasn't been to pleasant to Renault in the past)

Zak Brown hasn't got an easy job at the moment.....

Lets not forget where Zak Brown's expertise lies. He is the founder and CEO of the largest motorsport marketing company in the world, and has many links into a massively untapped US F1 market. I'm certain they'll secure a top marquee sponsor for next season, probably an American one. I remember him saying at the start of the season during an interview they were close to securing one for this season, but it all happened a little to late. The McLaren owners also have links into potential big middle eastern investments, so I think sourcing the money won't be an issue.

Was hoping McLaren would stick with Honda, but excited all the same by what is now an exclusive Renault partnership (RB might be frozen out from data access as McLaren were in 2014). Will be interesting to see the McLaren and Red Bull chassis go head to head! I think it'll be closer than a lot of people think.

[ZakB]

Some people also forget that the whole development route is compromised by the lack of power.

[hemichromis]

For those who says it's Ron's fault for making honda enter a year two soon let's not forget they were still not great in the 2nd year anyway and had a whole year of learning on track. Which they wouldn't have had. At current levels of progress I suspect it could have taken at least two years to get level with others from the position they are in now and by then it's time to change engine regulations anyway

Testing would have been unlimited. If Honda had waited another year they could have had the engine running 24/7 around Suzuka in a Super Formula car.
Once you enter the sport you can no longer use a mule car.

[marmer]

For those who says it's Ron's fault for making honda enter a year two soon let's not forget they were still not great in the 2nd year anyway and had a whole year of learning on track. Which they wouldn't have had. At current levels of progress I suspect it could have taken at least two years to get level with others from the position they are in now and by then it's time to change engine regulations anyway

Testing would have been unlimited. If Honda had waited another year they could have had the engine running 24/7 around Suzuka in a Super Formula car.
Once you enter the sport you can no longer use a mule car.

Yes true but they could see in real terms where they needed to improve they came into the sport being the only other engine provider that knew another's performance levels and still missed it by a mile the only thing close to this was the quickly converted Renault but there engine was already set out so they couldn't just change bits instantly to copy the Mercedes in the lotus

[diffuser]

I guess it depends on who's hand is holding it...

looking at the smiles of the Honda guys, i think they're in for some good stuff. Next year toro rosso top 3

Maybe they finalized the redbull contract from 2019...
They just got upgraded from mclaren to Redbull despite having the worst PU...genius i tell u

The next step is a maybe ..not a for sure.

[diffuser]

Some people also forget that the whole development route is compromised by the lack of power.

Yep, I agree . So is the PU's own Development. You don't always find flaws till to you push it harder with more Power.

[Jacinto]

As I said, 2007 was the turning point for Mclaren. After spygate, Mercedes decided that Mclaren was to become just another customer.

That's not really what happened. Friction between Mercedes and McLaren existed on several levels.


First there was the Mercedes SLR road car project that caused a lot of frustration on both sides.

Mercedes had a 40% stake in McLaren, and wanted to buy the F1 team to rebrand it as a Mercedes works team. Ron Dennis refused.

McLaren had road car ambitions and developed the MP4-12C. Mercedes did not like that, as they viewed it as direct competition for their high-end sports cars.

When Honda withdrew from F1 at the end of 2008, their team principal Ross Brawn took over the team, minus the engine. He asked Mercedes for theirs, but McLaren had a veto. Their then-team principal Martin Whitmarsh agreed to let BrawnGP use the Merc engines for 2009, and Brawn bagged the double.

Mercedes had wanted to enter F1 as a works team anyway (originally by buying McLaren), and they scooped up BrawnGP at the end of 2009, gradually selling off their 40% in McLaren over the next four years.

And finally, when it became clear to Mercedes that the team they bought wasn't as good as their 2009 performance had suggested, they methodically started luring away technical staff from McLaren.

Evidently Mclaren and Mercedes had their problemas. To be honest, problems between partners are normal - as is problems between F1 teams and their engine supplier.

However, up until 2007, Mercedes and Mclaren were able to solve their problems and keep their partnership. After spygate, Mercedes was not very happy and the partnership was over: they bought Brawn GP and, as Mercedes pocket were (and still is) deeper than Mclaren´s, Mercedes did what smart teams do: "steal" your competitor qualified personnel (including driver).

And that´s the reason I say Mclaren´s declined after 2007: they were no longer Mercedes "works team", they lost qualified personnel, mostly (but not only) to Mercedes, lost money from Vodafone...

I´m a mclaren fan, so I do hope they will make progress next year. But I do find hardo to believe that Mclaren will be champion with current engine rules.

[ZakB]

As I said, 2007 was the turning point for Mclaren. After spygate, Mercedes decided that Mclaren was to become just another customer.

That's not really what happened. Friction between Mercedes and McLaren existed on several levels.


First there was the Mercedes SLR road car project that caused a lot of frustration on both sides.

Mercedes had a 40% stake in McLaren, and wanted to buy the F1 team to rebrand it as a Mercedes works team. Ron Dennis refused.

McLaren had road car ambitions and developed the MP4-12C. Mercedes did not like that, as they viewed it as direct competition for their high-end sports cars.

When Honda withdrew from F1 at the end of 2008, their team principal Ross Brawn took over the team, minus the engine. He asked Mercedes for theirs, but McLaren had a veto. Their then-team principal Martin Whitmarsh agreed to let BrawnGP use the Merc engines for 2009, and Brawn bagged the double.

Mercedes had wanted to enter F1 as a works team anyway (originally by buying McLaren), and they scooped up BrawnGP at the end of 2009, gradually selling off their 40% in McLaren over the next four years.

And finally, when it became clear to Mercedes that the team they bought wasn't as good as their 2009 performance had suggested, they methodically started luring away technical staff from McLaren.

Evidently Mclaren and Mercedes had their problemas. To be honest, problems between partners are normal - as is problems between F1 teams and their engine supplier.

However, up until 2007, Mercedes and Mclaren were able to solve their problems and keep their partnership. After spygate, Mercedes was not very happy and the partnership was over: they bought Brawn GP and, as Mercedes pocket were (and still is) deeper than Mclaren´s, Mercedes did what smart teams do: "steal" your competitor qualified personnel (including driver).

And that´s the reason I say Mclaren´s declined after 2007: they were no longer Mercedes "works team", they lost qualified personnel, mostly (but not only) to Mercedes, lost money from Vodafone...

I´m a mclaren fan, so I do hope they will make progress next year. But I do find hardo to believe that Mclaren will be champion with current engine rules.

This Renault deal is just to get McLaren back on track. It is already hard to find a good title sponsor that wants to pay the amount McLaren wants, but you could change hard to impossible at the positions they are currently fighting. McLaren as a company is doing great, but they probably don't lose all their money on the F1 team. So next year it's time to fight for podiums and Zak needs to find a title sponsor.

[zeph]

And that´s the reason I say Mclaren´s declined after 2007: they were no longer Mercedes "works team", they lost qualified personnel, mostly (but not only) to Mercedes, lost money from Vodafone...

I understood you the first time, but it is incorrect. They stopped being a Mercedes works team at the end of 2009, when Mercedes bought BrawnGP. Not in 2007, not because of Spygate.

If you want to know more:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/13785
https://www.google.com/search?q=McLaren ... F2010&tbm=

[RS200E]

They still had a lot of works privilages until 2014 e.g latest engine maps. All that ended in 2014 when they became a 2nd grade customer.

[marmer]

End of he day McLaren and Alonso are made for each other. History or awful decisions that look good at the time

[Redragon]

To my eyes this is Williams II, Mclaren from greatness to be another costumer team that if lucky will win a contractors Wordchampionship that haven't done since1998 and probably will not win again until 2022? or beyond. Hopefully I will eat my words but that's how I see it.

[Redragon]

The biggest question now is, who is going to bankroll McLaren...
from 1980 to 1996-ish it was Philip Morris, then from 1997-ish to 2012 Mercedes (then a few difficult years) and Honda for the past three years.

besides the trouble they've got themselves in with being a car manufacturer now (which implies they should make their own PU, or at least, as they did with Porsche, outsource it), no big sportscar brand want's to link with them.

If Porsche/VW, BMW or Toyota/Lexus should make a choice, they would go and talk with RedBull over McLaren in a heartbeat (even if RB hasn't been to pleasant to Renault in the past)

Zak Brown hasn't got an easy job at the moment.....

Lets not forget where Zak Brown's expertise lies. He is the founder and CEO of the largest motorsport marketing company in the world, and has many links into a massively untapped US F1 market. I'm certain they'll secure a top marquee sponsor for next season, probably an American one. I remember him saying at the start of the season during an interview they were close to securing one for this season, but it all happened a little to late. The McLaren owners also have links into potential big middle eastern investments, so I think sourcing the money won't be an issue.


Was hoping McLaren would stick with Honda, but excited all the same by what is now an exclusive Renault partnership (RB might be frozen out from data access as McLaren were in 2014). Will be interesting to see the McLaren and Red Bull chassis go head to head! I think it'll be closer than a lot of people think.

He was contracted to bring a main sponsor this year as deadline 2017. He probably is the one who has pushed more for the Renault deal as his head probably was on the line. Now he has bought a bit more time with Honda not delivering and the Renault deal but if he doesn't find a main sponsor by next year 2018 probably his head will be chopped too.

[Del Boy]

I know what happened. I've followed the team ever since Button joined them.

Unless your 12 that's not an endorsement! I'm 51 and been a supporter since 1975. I was 9 when Mr Hunt won the WDC.
Just saying!!!