McLaren MCL60

[mwillems]

The front wing has been scalloped and even shifted slightly forward wrt the tyre to deal with the tyre wake when cornering more, that's part of what was being worked on when they found the front tyres deform differently.
That's why I'm assuming they'll have more tweaks there as only finding that out mid winter is quite late.

I would assume the impact of the deformation is at least twofold, in that it changes the way the wake feeds off from the tyre, but if it deforming it will be masking a little bit of the feel of the road as it does so.

Not sure if that is totally correct but it feels like it might be right.

I would guess this is not unique to the Mclaren, does this suggest that the feel of road from the car, or lack of, is down to this deformation?

Have other teams to anyone's knowledge managed to deal with this at all? If they didn't know before, I wonder if there is work to be done on the setup such as tyre pressures and the temperature to which we allow the tyre to reach, assuming that the tyre may deform less when cooler. Or whether the car simply turns out to be faster using a conventional setup.

[bucker]

Already looking for updates and they haven't done a lap

https://the-race.com/formula-1/not-enti ... s-already/

[hollus]

Just the usual reminder, especially for the new people: Drivers, lap times, track position and championship position belong in the team threads. Such posts might be moved or deleted from the car threads.
Only hardware and its interpretation belong in the car threads. Thank you.

[PhillipM]

I would assume the impact of the deformation is at least twofold, in that it changes the way the wake feeds off from the tyre, but if it deforming it will be masking a little bit of the feel of the road as it does so.

Not sure if that is totally correct but it feels like it might be right.

All the tyres deform under loadings, that's nothing new.
What Mclaren are saying is the new front not only deforms differently from last years tyre. It also deforms differently from what should be expected in the models they were given (i.e, they don't believe the Pirelli models are accurate)

Now you'd normally take that with a pinch of salt given the tyre manufacturer should know that - however, one we're talking about Pirelli
Two - this wouldn't be the first time they've got it wrong with either shape or deformation data. We had the entire grid complaining about it before once or twice, and running styrofoam blocks rubbing the sidewalls to try get imprints to alter their models and brake ducts with (we might see that in testing again I guess).

If that's the case you're probably going to see some rapid iteration on the front brake ducts and small tweaks on the outboard of the wing until they're happy.

[mwillems]

I would assume the impact of the deformation is at least twofold, in that it changes the way the wake feeds off from the tyre, but if it deforming it will be masking a little bit of the feel of the road as it does so.

Not sure if that is totally correct but it feels like it might be right.

All the tyres deform under loadings, that's nothing new.
What Mclaren are saying is the new front not only deforms differently from last years tyre. It also deforms differently from what should be expected in the models they were given (i.e, they don't believe the Pirelli models are accurate)

Now you'd normally take that with a pinch of salt given the tyre manufacturer should know that - however, one we're talking about Pirelli
Two - this wouldn't be the first time they've got it wrong with either shape or deformation data. We had the entire grid complaining about it before once or twice, and running styrofoam blocks rubbing the sidewalls to try get imprints to alter their models and brake ducts with (we might see that in testing again I guess).

If that's the case you're probably going to see some rapid iteration on the front brake ducts and small tweaks on the outboard of the wing until they're happy.

Thanks for that, it's really interesting.

I guess I'm also wanting to understand if the way it deforms or the amount by which it can deform is the reason why the cars also lose some sensation with the track as Danny Ric and Lando would talk about. Is it simply that the profile of the tyres deformation is different, or does it deform substantially more than was expected?

[EJ22B]

All the tyres deform under loadings, that's nothing new.
What Mclaren are saying is the new front not only deforms differently from last years tyre. It also deforms differently from what should be expected in the models they were given (i.e, they don't believe the Pirelli models are accurate)

Now you'd normally take that with a pinch of salt given the tyre manufacturer should know that - however, one we're talking about Pirelli
Two - this wouldn't be the first time they've got it wrong with either shape or deformation data. We had the entire grid complaining about it before once or twice, and running styrofoam blocks rubbing the sidewalls to try get imprints to alter their models and brake ducts with (we might see that in testing again I guess).

If that's the case you're probably going to see some rapid iteration on the front brake ducts and small tweaks on the outboard of the wing until they're happy.

I can totally see some teams finding this out in pre-season testing. Maybe McLaren then will have edge over it's competitors as they have been working on a proper solution for this problem since mid-december.

[SmallSoldier]

I would assume the impact of the deformation is at least twofold, in that it changes the way the wake feeds off from the tyre, but if it deforming it will be masking a little bit of the feel of the road as it does so.

Not sure if that is totally correct but it feels like it might be right.

All the tyres deform under loadings, that's nothing new.
What Mclaren are saying is the new front not only deforms differently from last years tyre. It also deforms differently from what should be expected in the models they were given (i.e, they don't believe the Pirelli models are accurate)

Now you'd normally take that with a pinch of salt given the tyre manufacturer should know that - however, one we're talking about Pirelli
Two - this wouldn't be the first time they've got it wrong with either shape or deformation data. We had the entire grid complaining about it before once or twice, and running styrofoam blocks rubbing the sidewalls to try get imprints to alter their models and brake ducts with (we might see that in testing again I guess).

If that's the case you're probably going to see some rapid iteration on the front brake ducts and small tweaks on the outboard of the wing until they're happy.

Thanks for that, it's really interesting.

I guess I'm also wanting to understand if the way it deforms or the amount by which it can deform is the reason why the cars also lose some sensation with the track as Danny Ric and Lando would talk about. Is it simply that the profile of the tyres deformation is different, or does it deform substantially more than was expected?

I have silly theory that last year issues were more related a miscalculation in regards to porpoising and the car bottoming out (a mix of both effects) that forced McLaren to not been able to use the car in the sweet spot they intended too in regards to ride height and therefore they weren’t creating the amount of DF they expected from the floor / tunnels… This forced them to use more front / rear wing to compensate for the loss of DF… This had 3 effects, it changed the COP of the overall car, driving it backwards and therefore inducing understeer, the overall increase in drag due to the higher AOA on the wings and changes in balance during the different corner phases based on which was aero device (wings / floor) was more prevalent during it.

This is just me rambling, so don’t hold me to it!

[PhillipM]

I guess I'm also wanting to understand if the way it deforms or the amount by which it can deform is the reason why the cars also lose some sensation with the track as Danny Ric and Lando would talk about. Is it simply that the profile of the tyres deformation is different, or does it deform substantially more than was expected?

One of the more aero-experienced guys here will probably confirm but I would suspect it's far less about deformation for sensation and much more because tyre squirt effects can change strength a lot with relatively small changes in deformation/shape, especially in lock.
It's more an aero issue than a mechanical one.

I'd also say if I've heard about it just from the ramblings of the shop floor it's nothing they care about because they expect other teams already know and it doesn't matter.

[mwillems]

All the tyres deform under loadings, that's nothing new.
What Mclaren are saying is the new front not only deforms differently from last years tyre. It also deforms differently from what should be expected in the models they were given (i.e, they don't believe the Pirelli models are accurate)

Now you'd normally take that with a pinch of salt given the tyre manufacturer should know that - however, one we're talking about Pirelli
Two - this wouldn't be the first time they've got it wrong with either shape or deformation data. We had the entire grid complaining about it before once or twice, and running styrofoam blocks rubbing the sidewalls to try get imprints to alter their models and brake ducts with (we might see that in testing again I guess).

If that's the case you're probably going to see some rapid iteration on the front brake ducts and small tweaks on the outboard of the wing until they're happy.

Thanks for that, it's really interesting.

I guess I'm also wanting to understand if the way it deforms or the amount by which it can deform is the reason why the cars also lose some sensation with the track as Danny Ric and Lando would talk about. Is it simply that the profile of the tyres deformation is different, or does it deform substantially more than was expected?

I have silly theory that last year issues were more related a miscalculation in regards to porpoising and the car bottoming out (a mix of both effects) that forced McLaren to not been able to use the car in the sweet spot they intended too in regards to ride height and therefore they weren’t creating the amount of DF they expected from the floor / tunnels… This forced them to use more front / rear wing to compensate for the loss of DF… This had 3 effects, it changed the COP of the overall car, driving it backwards and therefore inducing understeer, the overall increase in drag due to the higher AOA on the wings and changes in balance during the different corner phases based on which was aero device (wings / floor) was more prevalent during it.

This is just me rambling, so don’t hold me to it!

I think it certainly had an effect on the ride height and having to run a stiff suspension compared to teams like RB who already had some rake and more play in the suspension, it would affect the ride of the car over the bumps and kerbs.
As for the rest, you may be right! I don't recall us using much more wing than others but I've a teething 10 month old to whom sleep is an occassional hobby and I can barely recall yesterday.

[PhillipM]

I don't think you can really assume this was a case the last few years. The tyre construction has changed.
If it was a problem before you would assume they would have found it just the same. All the teams have very complex tyre simulators.

[mwillems]

I don't think you can really assume this was a case the last few years. The tyre construction has changed.
If it was a problem before you would assume they would have found it just the same. All the teams have very complex tyre simulators.

Is that for me? That last post was just around the aero of the car and not tyre related.

[chengzhongyi2013]

A basic question here
Understand that the MCL60 has continued with pullrod front suspension/pushrod rear suspension
Would this suspension setup have a significant impact on mechanical grip, versus a pushrod front/rear suspension?

[SmallSoldier]

During the preseason videos, in one of the frames we spotted what seemed to be a new intercooler that McLaren could potentially use in the MCL60 (using a similar system to Mercedes)



This article is really good to understand it a bit more (in Japanese, but easy to translate using Google / Safari):

https://f1-motorsports-gp.com/mer/2022- ... c-re-vlim/



*Also posted it in the Mercedes Engine Thread, but posting it here too in case some may not be visiting that one

Adding a quick Twitter thread that also explains it

[Emag]

It's funny how Mercedes is practically running McLaren's last year's initial spec in terms of design philosophy, albeit with more of a shrink wrapped and tighter packaging.

Yet I can guarantee you the "media" will undoubtedly consider Mercedes' choice bold and ambitious.

Meanwhile McLaren gets demolished for going down a path in which apparently more than half the grid is following.

It's comical in a way, but I saw these articles coming when Stella made the not so confidence inspiring comments after the launch.

On another note, seeing Mercedes following a similar path to what McLaren abandon makes the disadvantage in tools more apparent in my opinion. McLaren obviously weren't able to see what Mercedes has seemingly found in a similar concept.

[Lefty8]

More like 90% RB, 10% Ferrari, 0% Merc.

so the engine is from where.....?

What's the engine got to do with the shape of the sidepod? It's clearly a RB homage with some subtle Alpine/Ferrari hints with the scalloped upper ridge.

quite a lot actually since the cooling system is a very integral and important component as does the layout of auxiliary equipment