Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
User avatar
bauc
33
Joined: 19 Jun 2013, 10:03
Location: Skopje, Macedonia

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

VFC_Cipher wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 03:09
Slightly off topic, but TJ13 has had this entire article picked up and published on DriveTribe. Scary! People will think this is truth. :shock:

https://drivetribe.com/p/why-the-honda- ... 1Ij0isb-MA

WAY OFF TOPIC, but the Judge was the first one to bring up the news that RedBull will use re-branded Reno Engines, so from time to time he has some good info.
Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkjCv ... 6rVRgKASwg

3jawchuck
3jawchuck
37
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 08:57

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

bauc wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 09:11
VFC_Cipher wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 03:09
Slightly off topic, but TJ13 has had this entire article picked up and published on DriveTribe. Scary! People will think this is truth. :shock:

https://drivetribe.com/p/why-the-honda- ... 1Ij0isb-MA

WAY OFF TOPIC, but the Judge was the first one to bring up the news that RedBull will use re-branded Reno Engines, so from time to time he has some good info.
What's that expression, a broken clock is right twice a day?

Serious question though, what other scoops have TJ13 brought to us?

ATMwhat?
ATMwhat?
0
Joined: 29 Jun 2017, 12:25

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

Facts Only wrote:
28 Jun 2017, 09:28
HPD wrote:
28 Jun 2017, 00:59
So the question.. Why is the Honda engine so bad?

Well lets again start with perhaps why it isn’t, we also know that the Honda engine in the paddock is classed as a GOOD engine (that’s right)
I've neve laughed so much at anything on this forum, the most ridiculous thing i have possibly ever read.

A good engine? Nobody considers it a good engine. It has the lowest power, worst fuel economy and utterly shocking reliabilty. Its a complete laughing stock around my area of F1, a consumate example of what we need not do.

How on earth did you come to such an insane conclusion?

Edit: apparently its the Judge 13 who i have been laughing at. HPD was just quoting.
I know there must be something wrong with Mr Piston Honda;)

GhostF1
GhostF1
110
Joined: 30 Aug 2016, 04:11

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

Here is a good 36 second snippet of the race. Shows the on board "drag race" people have been mentioning (Honda vs 2016 Ferrari) and a couple overtake manoeuvres by Alonso and Vandoorne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4SJBfKBn38

GoranF1
GoranF1
155
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 12:53
Location: Zagreb,Croatia

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

-wkst-
-wkst-
10
Joined: 29 Jan 2016, 21:55
Location: Austria

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

That's just a recap of last weekend...

alexa
alexa
1
Joined: 08 Jan 2017, 19:41

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

30hp worth 0,3sec/lap? Either Hasagawa underestimated time lap gain or this 30hp is overestimated.BTW Renault changed engine mapping in Baku and they gained 0,15s.

User avatar
HPD
198
Joined: 30 Jun 2016, 16:06

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

ATMwhat? wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 12:29
Facts Only wrote:
28 Jun 2017, 09:28
HPD wrote:
28 Jun 2017, 00:59
So the question.. Why is the Honda engine so bad?

Well lets again start with perhaps why it isn’t, we also know that the Honda engine in the paddock is classed as a GOOD engine (that’s right)
I've neve laughed so much at anything on this forum, the most ridiculous thing i have possibly ever read.

A good engine? Nobody considers it a good engine. It has the lowest power, worst fuel economy and utterly shocking reliabilty. Its a complete laughing stock around my area of F1, a consumate example of what we need not do.

How on earth did you come to such an insane conclusion?

Edit: apparently its the Judge 13 who i have been laughing at. HPD was just quoting.
I know there must be something wrong with Mr Piston Honda;)
Calm down, not my words.
I try to get all the news / articles / interviews to contribute to the forum and help with the discussion.

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

alexa wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 13:39
30hp worth 0,3sec/lap? Either Hasagawa underestimated time lap gain or this 30hp is overestimated.BTW Renault changed engine mapping in Baku and they gained 0,15s.
Hasegawa didn't say 30 hp gained . He said 0.2-0.3 sec gain expected.

GoranF1
GoranF1
155
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 12:53
Location: Zagreb,Croatia

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

etusch wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 13:48
alexa wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 13:39
30hp worth 0,3sec/lap? Either Hasagawa underestimated time lap gain or this 30hp is overestimated.BTW Renault changed engine mapping in Baku and they gained 0,15s.
Hasegawa didn't say 30 hp gained . He said 0.2-0.3 sec gain expected.
He might have been a little pesimistic delibretly.
Hope Mclaren will have a nice aero package for Austria to go along whit PU update.
I have this dream....
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

GoranF1
GoranF1
155
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 12:53
Location: Zagreb,Croatia

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

etusch wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 15:02
GoranF1 wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 14:35
And in other news.... :D
https://twitter.com/f1talks/status/880403326575271938
He /she may say where the PU will be mounted
New chassis...mcl 32b
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

bill shoe
bill shoe
151
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

bauc wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 09:11
VFC_Cipher wrote:
29 Jun 2017, 03:09
Slightly off topic, but TJ13 has had this entire article picked up and published on DriveTribe. Scary! People will think this is truth. :shock:

https://drivetribe.com/p/why-the-honda- ... 1Ij0isb-MA

WAY OFF TOPIC, but the Judge was the first one to bring up the news that RedBull will use re-branded Reno Engines, so from time to time he has some good info.
No. TJ13 said that Red Bull was buying the IP to Renault's engine as it stood two years ago, and RB was going to then develop it on their own as a separate engine from the Renault works team, so the Renault engine program would have been permanently split into two branches. Nothing like this happened.

The "Joe Saward" rule is pretty good: Does the author of an article have regular access to the F1 paddock, and did they speak to the people who will be making decisions? The "horse" won't usually spill everything the author wants, but did the author get input from the horses mouth?

aral68
aral68
1
Joined: 21 Jun 2017, 19:21

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

HPD wrote:
28 Jun 2017, 00:59
So the question.. Why is the Honda engine so bad?


Then there is another idea, and it is just a theory BUT..

The fuel has many additives, one of which is OIL (see previous stories on extra tanks and bans for next year). Engines, tolerances and especially mapping are designed around fuel, oil and other additives that keep temperatures inside the cylinders down and results in a more reliable and predictable combustion. Understanding fuel, additives and they tiny details on how they effect combustion is ESSENTIAL to any mapping engineer.

Honda had developed all of its previous power units to specifically use Exxon-Mobil fuel but ahead of the 2017 season a very late switch to BP-Castrol fuel was needed after McLaren signed a new deal with the the British supplier. This would have been a massive blow. Engine tokens are ditched this year but this change needs real miles. Track time is non existent, and dynos are almost useless past producing a base map.

So I am going to say it… Have McLaren created a large chunk of the problems through a last minute trade deal?

Baku saw a new generation engine used, and SKY reported that they had bought it along basically as a dyno test. They retired and returned to the old engine because they feared the gearbox failure (power train oscillations in specific rev ranges anyone?) may have damaged the engine. It may have but I don’t think they ever intended on using it for the race. Just some track time.

#SteveBarbyF1
https://thejudge13.com/2017/06/27/why-a ... explained/
Paraphrasing HPDs post here, but I've had a feeling all season that at least some of honda's issues are related to the late switch to Castrol.
The chemistry involved in advanced fuels and lubes that they are using here are far from off the shelf and take years of development - I've been involved in lube oil development for some years, unfortunately for me I've never been in a position to understand F1 formulations.
Very likely that the fuel and lube have synergies, given that these engines have such narrow peak operating bands. I don't believe Castrol have quite the experience that ExxonMobil/Shell/Total have in this area - simply because they haven't been involved for the last few years these engine configurations have been used

User avatar
loner
16
Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 18:34

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

find it daft to expect only 12 hp from new fuel + new injectors + mapping + new TC , MGU-H combined.
para bellum.

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

Where do you get these numbers?
Saishū kōnā