Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[Schulteiss]

Will the ban of the front reactive ride height system hurt Mercedes most:

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/14763/ ... e-dassetto

It is rumored that Mercedes tried to integrate that system in their interconnected suspension system, with the ban of the frhs, a key component was lost.

That would be good upgrade to their system but even without the RHH interconnected suspension is still beneficial. Fia didn't mention their solution so it stays legal. I'm wondering if the new car will have rear and front connetion. For 2011 there were olny images showing left and right rear suspension connection.

It was my understanding too, that the interlinked suspension has a similar, anti-dive effect. Stupid question maybe, but front-rear interlink, is it legal?

[MercAMGF1Fans]

WOW! sounds like a plan, but will try and get it translated by an Italian friend.

[xpensive]

If MGP/AMG's suspension has a similar reactive ride-height effect as the Lotus-system, it will surely be banned as well.

[dren]

If the system is a linked hydraulic system, I think it might still be legal. It isn't like the Lotus system where it actually changes suspension geometry. It changes how the dampers are linked through valving to oppose the dive. It was rumored that Mercedes ran this system already last year. It may be slower to react compared to the Lotus system.

[astracrazy]

does it break rule 10.2.3 though? (No adjustment may be made to the suspension system while the car is in motion)

[dren]

does it break rule 10.2.3 though? (No adjustment may be made to the suspension system while the car is in motion)

The only difference with the hydraulicly linked system over the brake-torque system is that any adjustment would be purely from the deceleration force. You could say the same thing when the car goes around a turn, the suspension opposes the turn. If there are valves that open and close due to accelerating/decelerating forces, then that might be illegal since it is an adjustment, although it would be completely contained within itself.

Is that the actual technical directive that was just put out?

[astracrazy]

from what i have read, the FIA haven't made a statement. I just looked in the thread about it and this seems to be what pops up and make most sense as to why it was banned.

[Mr.S]

TRANSLATED from the article -


The prohibition of the corrector structure decided by the FIA technical for the moment did not send a crisis team Lotus Renault : the team at Enstone, in fact, had planned to start the season with a conventional suspension , since the team is rather late in setting the new car for Kimi Raikkonen and Romain Grosjean. The idea was to Alan remains to equip the Lotus of the variable structure controlled by the brake from the European season because the development phase of the system is rather complicated and requires longer than expected. The ban by the International Federation decided Friday, however, did throw overboard a year of work and considerable investment on the project, at least initially, had the full support of the federal men. But, it says according to the paddock, may not only be the Lotus Renault to suffer the stop gained by Charlie Whiting and Jo Bauer: the Mercedes GP MGP W03 on the hydraulic system was integrating the interesting connection with the front of the rear suspension that the team has used in Brackley Last season, the corrector set-type Lotus . The fact is well-known men of Ross Brawn as technical director of the Mercedes Grand Prix, Bob Bell , comes from Enstone and would call him the creator of the brilliant system that has been so much talk these days. The silver arrows, combining two interesting solutions, they would put on track the first suspension system "active" with no electronic controls or direct implications of the pilot. niet The buoyancy in the corrector braking, therefore, likely to produce a more negative effect on the Mercedes Grand Prix than it generates the Lotus Renault : it is worth remembering that the team will miss the Brackey first test session in Jerez. The official reason is that the team is in a delay in the machine, but many people have thought that Ross wanted to hide an ace up its sleeve, in the hope that there was less time to copy it before the world. If so, Michael Schumacher and Nico Rosberg will face the first part of the 2012 season with a car "lame" a gimmick that has provoked reactions too, after the anticipation of OmniCorse.it., not to be considered very interesting ...

[munudeges]

If MGP/AMG's suspension has a similar reactive ride-height effect as the Lotus-system, it will surely be banned as well.

The key to making such a system really pay off is to make sure you've put in the hard work on the aerodynamic side so that when you add such a system what it does is multiply the work you've already put in. The system is not a means to an end in itself. Ditto with the F-duct. It gives you a finite amount of time by itself if that's all you concentrate on.

If the rumours are true and Merc do believe this system was a means to an end then the 2013 car might already be on the horizon before the season has even started.

[Ferraripilot]

If the system is a linked hydraulic system, I think it might still be legal. It isn't like the Lotus system where it actually changes suspension geometry. It changes how the dampers are linked through valving to oppose the dive. It was rumored that Mercedes ran this system already last year. It may be slower to react compared to the Lotus system.

Can you explain this bit of excellent engineering a bit for us? I'm not sure I'm grasping how the front suspension could be opposed to dive when linked to the rear. Could perhaps rear heave cause a reaction to front mounted interconnected cylinders which softened the front and vice versa?? Although I think the system would react independantly to each wheel. The integrated hydraulics are sort of mind boggling to think about really.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

[...] To wait for confirmed information, then pass judgement seems like logic to me. And as I see it, Mercedes have only mentioned the W03 to be longer than the 02, and to have a novel cooling arrangement.

How can this mean Ross brawn is incompetent?

[MercAMGF1Fans]

Posted by someone who knows italian on our Fanpage on FB..

Tommaso Carlà: the article says that mercedes could be affected by the banned RRH because of Bob Bell being the man that invented the system back in 2010, and so probably mercedes was building the car around that. Lot of speculation though, often this website is not reliable and gives news a little bit randomly (in this period of the year, every year, Ferrari is surely very innovative and the future world champion according to them, not exactly what has happened 'til now). For example, the writer also states that Mercedes' RRH has been banned: not true, the announcement on the FIA's website reports that Lotus and Ferrari systems have been banned, they do not talk about Mercedes. This could mean: 1. Mercedes has NOT the system; 2. Mercedes has the system, but works legally. Many people speculate about Mercedes, but we don't know anything because they are absolutely silent (someone has even said that Brawn pushed the FIA to ban the system because they can achieve the same effect of the RRH with the front wing F-Duct, and only Mercedes will have it!), so we won't know anything until 21st February, I think.

[Mr.S]

I think people should atleast wait to see the car before burying Brawn & Mercedes. People saying they should plan for the 2013 car should actually be ashamed that they are actually eating their words when they said MSC will run away after a year or Mercedes team will be sold after this disaster.

I certainly hate the fact that Mercedes are the only team with HRT & Virgin to delay the car but I will wait to see how competitive the car is before burying. F1 is innovation or perish. I don't care if they get another SWB dud & come 4th again. I atleast want them to give their best & try.Not some generic copied basic car which would compete with Renault & Force India anyway. I dont think they will come down lower than 4th. SO better try for 1st & come 4th than try for 3/4th & come 3rd or 4th.

[Mr.S]

Posted by someone who knows italian on our Fanpage on FB..

Tommaso Carlà: the article says that mercedes could be affected by the banned RRH because of Bob Bell being the man that invented the system back in 2010, and so probably mercedes was building the car around that. Lot of speculation though, often this website is not reliable and gives news a little bit randomly (in this period of the year, every year, Ferrari is surely very innovative and the future world champion according to them, not exactly what has happened 'til now). For example, the writer also states that Mercedes' RRH has been banned: not true, the announcement on the FIA's website reports that Lotus and Ferrari systems have been banned, they do not talk about Mercedes. This could mean: 1. Mercedes has NOT the system; 2. Mercedes has the system, but works legally. Many people speculate about Mercedes, but we don't know anything because they are absolutely silent (someone has even said that Brawn pushed the FIA to ban the system because they can achieve the same effect of the RRH with the front wing F-Duct, and only Mercedes will have it!), so we won't know anything until 21st February, I think.

You are ridiculous optimistic. Better than being pessimistic but still wrong.

It says RRH has been altogether banned. Not the Lotus or Ferrari system. That is the official statement of FIA. Given in the website too. RRH altogether has been banned,binding for all teams.

The 2nd bit is the Front Wing F-duct,dont know how much gain this will bring But I am more than sure Mercedes will not be the only team to race it. My 2 cents,I am willing to bet.

Ferrai,I have seen their nose cones & it looks like they experimented with it. I have also read such rumours & the whole speaker rumour thing & the other stuff sounds a lot similar in principle to the Front Wing F-duct.

Since Mercedes gave it away so early,if this system has Significant benifits expect more team apart from Ferrai to run this too. Now they may not be optimised as much as the Mercedes,maybe because of starting late but they will run it none-the-less.

[MercAMGF1Fans]

You are ridiculous optimistic. Better than being pessimistic but still wrong.

It says RRH has been altogether banned. Not the Lotus or Ferrari system. That is the official statement of FIA. Given in the website too. RRH altogether has been banned,binding for all teams.

The 2nd bit is the Front Wing F-duct,dont know how much gain this will bring But I am more than sure Mercedes will not be the only team to race it. My 2 cents,I am willing to bet.

Ferrai,I have seen their nose cones & it looks like they experimented with it. I have also read such rumours & the whole speaker rumour thing & the other stuff sounds a lot similar in principle to the Front Wing F-duct.

Since Mercedes gave it away so early,if this system has Significant benifits expect more team apart from Ferrai to run this too. Now they may not be optimised as much as the Mercedes,maybe because of starting late but they will run it none-the-less.

I'm just quoting what someone posted on the FB page regarding that Italian article..
at the moment, realistically, none of us know what Merc are up to, and with the added delay to the launch, which i must point out, was a very deliberate strategic all they made back in November, in which Ross clearly stated "We're taking a different approach to winter testing".. I really think we should as fans have some trust..