F1 on a road to nowhere...?

[Raptor22]

it would simply be great to have racing without the insurance companies and the lawyers threatning to sue if wheels so much as touch.

There will always be boring races. maybe even boring seasons but never has there been plain boring rules as there is today.

[strad]

I did notice that Cosworth hasn't been mentioned yet

DFV? ring a bell?
I can't believe it...People who agree with what I have been saying for years. Thank You!
To the rest if you don't think any decade before this wasn't better than this one,,,you weren't watching.

[xpensive]

Of course there were boring races in the 70s, as well as in the 80s and 90s, but my point is that on top of all the intricate technical solutions coming and going for us geeks, there was always an element of surprise. A car could brake down, engine blow up, run out of fuel, a driver even miss a gear. Though the latter seems eons ago.

Now everything is sooo predictable...and dare I say it, boring.

Many years ago the launch of a new car was an xciting thing, now it's predictable, unless there has been a radical rule change. The big thrill for the 2012 cars will thus be to see the nose-job, which probably will be the same on all cars anyway.

[scuderiafan]

It doesn't matter anymore anyways. Sports car racing is going to/already has surpassed F1 as the "pinnacle of motorsport".

[Mr Alcatraz]

Of course there were boring races in the 70s, as well as in the 80s and 90s, but my point is that on top of all the intricate technical solutions coming and going for us geeks, there was always an element of surprise. A car could brake down, engine blow up, run out of fuel, a driver even miss a gear. Though the latter seems eons ago.Now everything is sooo predictable...and dare I say it, boring.

Many years ago the launch of a new car was an xciting thing, now it's predictable, unless there has been a radical rule change. The big thrill for the 2012 cars will thus be to see the nose-job, which probably will be the same on all cars anyway.

You made a good point I have to say. The most significant difference in the way things were then and are now is the fast reliable engines. Thats at the top of my list, unless you,re allowed to build the engine every day, and that still wasn't as reliable

[Jersey Tom]

Don't have time to read through the whole thread as I'm about to go get some sushi, but a few thoughts...

1. Anything about the cars being "too safe" is absolute BS, and atrocious. What would you prefer? Have at the end of a rice, Seb Vettel laying bloody, mangled and lifeless spilling out of his car? "Oh yes! We love when drivers (and hell, spectators!) are injured, maimed and killed! Makes you stay on your feet! Now with Vettel out of the world of the living, who knows who will get the title next!" Safe racing has nothing to do with a good show.

2. I don't agree with arguments that F1 should be, or ever has been a center for new inventions and innovation. Aerodynamics, radial tires, fuel injected engines, etc etc... all developed elsewhere. F1 does find good ways to creatively apply things - and this I encourage. The whole relevance to road car technology thing is bogus.

3. Things like DRS, KERS, etc are all gimmicks. They are crutches and bandages over a lack of interesting racing. Take them away and the actual RACING part of the race would be boring. This speaks volumes.

4. Going along the lines of 3, the spread of competition in the field is immense. This is a problem. I'm all for having reduced and capped budgets and a more open rule book. Let people be creative, let there be diversity. But don't let a couple of teams just run away with the whole endeavor.

[hardingfv32]

3. Things like DRS, KERS, etc are all gimmicks. They are crutches and bandages over a lack of interesting racing. Take them away and the actual RACING part of the race would be boring. This speaks volumes.

4. Going along the lines of 3, the spread of competition in the field is immense. This is a problem. I'm all for having reduced and capped budgets and a more open rule book. Let people be creative, let there be diversity. But don't let a couple of teams just run away with the whole endeavor.

If in fact racing was any better in years past it was because of the randomness of the outcomes. Engine, transmission or chassis failures, poor race management and driver errors. Better science, engineering and team management have all but illuminated possible failures with the leading teams. The cars are all about the same because that is what good science and engineering dictates. There is NOTHING that can be done to stop this. It is call progress and more money just means more/faster progress. There is no turning the clock back.

I'm not sure why the drivers don't make more errors. Maybe the car are too easy to drive or they too scared of failure. We need to see the drivers taking more chances. Hamilton's problems this season need to be a common occurrence, not unusual event.

I say the randomness is the key to better racing. It must be reintroduced in areas that the teams have no scientific or technological control over. The sporadic rain races are a clear example of this addition of randomness.

There is NO other way to improve the "show". It is no accident that Pirelli was asked to provide the tire they did or why some management type proposed track sprinkler systems. F1 management knows exactly what the problem is.

Racing purest it will soon be time to find a new "sport".

Brian

[Jersey Tom]

I'm not saying that the racing in general was fantastic in years past. I just don't know. I only got into motorsport in general my freshman year of college, in 2003.

I agree that there should be a surprise level to the outcome of races, but not necessarily just throwing in elements of random chance.

[xpensive]

Don't have time to read through the whole thread as I'm about to go get some sushi, but a few thoughts...
...

Thanks for sharing.

Other than un-predictability, what I miss is of course technical xcitement, the reason the MGP W02-thread gathered some 400 pages, was that it was by far the most radical car on the grid with it's short wheel-base, funny xhaust and cooling.

Not that it did them much good, but they were a least trying to do something else than cloning an RBR?

[mx_tifoso]

"The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealized past." - Robertson Davies

I understand your guys' point of view but we must simply accept that F1 won't be as diverse as it once was. At least in GT categories we get to witness mid-engine vs rear-mount, F6 vs V8 vs V12, etc. Too bad it doesn't have the exposure that F1 does, or is it a good thing after all?

[hardingfv32]

Other than un-predictability, what I miss is of course technical xcitement

In this regard, the past was without doubt technically exciting. Say from the mid 60's to late 70's, in all forms of racing GP, Indy, Can Am, sports cars and even NASCAR. With the level of engineering and team management these days, the technical excitement is much more subtle.

That is what this forum is about after all, sniffing out the excitement.

Brian

[Raptor22]

What we're saying is that F1 has become hamstrung by poor decision making that inhibits creativity allowing costs to spiral.
In the past we have had economic downturns but that did not hamper the teams too much. Because if they did not have the sponsors they could make up the deficit with a new design.
Colin Chapman's vision of F1 was that it was a platform to express himself. He built Lotus cars to partly fund hisF1 passion. He is probably responsible for most of the conceptual layout of a modern day F1 car.
Monocoque chassis
Side pods
diffusors
ground effect

And what about the failures : twin chassis?
When the rules were more lose it was exciting to see what would be created by the engineers.

20 yrs ago I sketched what F1 cars would like like in 2012. I envisioned closed canopies for driver protection.
I envisioned fans sucking the carsto the ground with the fan exhausting vertically not horizontally.
Smaller wings that worked with the fans to allows cars to run closer together.
I speced the cars with 1 liter Turbo charged engines.
The cars even had manual gearboxes because I feel that changing gears yourself is part of the art of driving, hence I still drive a manual and not a DSG.

Racing about getting wheels close together. Its about intimidation and mind games. Its about being a strong human, mentally and physically.
Instead we have rules where if anyone touches your car you're off to the school teacher to sort it out.
We can have safe racing an still have the gladiatorial element to it.
everyone seems to have gone safety mad after Senna died. We seemed tohave lost sight of his vision for improved driver safety but realy good Wheel to Wheel Racing with cars that still looked out for drivers safety.
he was dead against all these "toys" and gadgets.

F1 needs race cars, not high speed processions.

Admittedly the last two years has been better but that is largely thanks to Adrian Newey having the vision of going to a small team and building it. We now have another storng contender and thats improved the diversity but done little for the racing.

I absolutely love karting. The vehicles are simple and the racing is pure. F1 should be the ultimate culmination ofsimplicity and racing purity.

I'd rather see the technology in a LMS race car where it has more relevance to a road car. However f1 is still a motorsport and it needs relevance to what we drive. Engine, drivetrain, materials, safety features and evne chassis technology like dampers, springs.
Kers is relevant but it needs to be more aggressively used.

[xpensive]

...
That is what this forum is about after all, sniffing out the excitement.

Brian

Here is where I see the problem with today's F1, the technical xcitement is all about aerodynamics, an area very few F1T-members understand, let alone journos, no matter how many catchwords like "vortexes" and "stalling" they throw around.

[Raptor22]

+1


include vacuum and skirts into that mix.

[andartop]

Based on all the above, I would suggest:

1. To force Adrian Newey to change teams every 2 years.
2. To forget all the silly overtaking rules and just stick some indicator lights to Lewis' and Felipe's cars.
3. To ditch some of the boring races - we all know which ones they are!
4. To force Ferrari to get their act together. Getting rid of Domenicalli should be the first step.
5. To have at least two restarts per race, so we get to see more of Schumi's first lap magic.
6. To ditch the ridiculous "you have to use both tires", "you must only use x sets of tires between 3.00 pm and 5.00 pm on Friday the 13th of March", and "no testing" rules, and then
7. To stop changing the bloody rules every year.