Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.

Do you prefer 2011 or 2012 Pirelli?

2011
23
52%
2012
21
48%
 
Total votes: 44

Lorenzo_Bandini
Lorenzo_Bandini
11
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 12:15

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

Nando wrote:
Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:I miss Bridgestone tyres.. Really, Bridgestone tyres, with DRS and KERS is the way to go. In 2010, the spectacle on track was poor because of DDD. It's ok Bridgestone tyres was perhaps a little too hard, but Pirelli tyres are way too soft, the F1 is a sprint, not an endurance race.
As you say F1 is not an endurance race... so why do you want endurance tires?

Because with these tyres, the drivers was allow too push like hell.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

IMO the signs for the tyre lottery were there to be seen in Malaysia and China - but we dismissed them. In Malaysia, Brawn said after the race that if you looked back at long runs on Friday, there were two cars constantly overheating the fronts - Sauber and Ferrari. Guess which two teams came on top on race day?

Then of course Mercedes got their tyres right in China and won.

Malaysia was dismissed as two fantastic drives from two great drivers - but now is it really? Seeing that given the right conditions even a Williams can win, what's to say the Malaysia win and 2nd place wasn't a result of conditions, as opposed to driver speed and guile? With equally switched-on tyres, who knows? The Merc might have been nowhere near the podium in China.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:
Nando wrote:
Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:I miss Bridgestone tyres.. Really, Bridgestone tyres, with DRS and KERS is the way to go. In 2010, the spectacle on track was poor because of DDD. It's ok Bridgestone tyres was perhaps a little too hard, but Pirelli tyres are way too soft, the F1 is a sprint, not an endurance race.
As you say F1 is not an endurance race... so why do you want endurance tires?

Because with these tyres, the drivers was allow too push like hell.
I think Jarno describes it best :mrgreen: Sadly maybe these are the last times we'll ever hear these words again?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zxNnyfSLTk[/youtube]
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:
Nando wrote:
Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:I miss Bridgestone tyres.. Really, Bridgestone tyres, with DRS and KERS is the way to go. In 2010, the spectacle on track was poor because of DDD. It's ok Bridgestone tyres was perhaps a little too hard, but Pirelli tyres are way too soft, the F1 is a sprint, not an endurance race.
As you say F1 is not an endurance race... so why do you want endurance tires?

Because with these tyres, the drivers was allow too push like hell.
Which would kill overtaking again, it would be 99% DRS overtakes.
Instead of the 40% we have now.

The Pirelli's are designed to go around the "bad air" problem we have with these aero dependent cars.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

Lorenzo_Bandini
Lorenzo_Bandini
11
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 12:15

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

I'm a ferrari fan and you are right Raymondu. Perez and Alonso was good, but now, it's seems they are the only one who have the right setup for the car this sunday.

Now, it's a Pirelli championship, and for me it's boring.


@NANDO

For me, it was the DDD who have kill overtaking in 2010.

Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

It's early days still, after a few more races they will figure out the tire and THEN the car's strength and and weaknesses will start to come in effect.

It's a blank sheet of paper for everyone, smartest brains will prevail.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

@ Lorenzo, you still can't stay behind another in the high speed stuff.
Last corner and T3 had prime examples of it.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

Nando wrote:The Pirelli's are designed to go around the "bad air" problem we have with these aero dependent cars.
@ Lorenzo, you still can't stay behind another in the high speed stuff.
Last corner and T3 had prime examples of it.
That's DRS, the objective of which was to give an aero advantage to counter the aero disadvantage of dirty air. The Pirellis were made to slow down the car ahead. The car behind will be slowed down by dirty air, no question. The job of Pirelli was to slow down the car ahead (through tyre wear) by a similar amount, to make the overtake possible.
It's early days still, after a few more races they will figure out the tire and THEN the car's strength and and weaknesses will start to come in effect.
That day can't come soon enough.
Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:I'm a ferrari fan and you are right Raymondu. Perez and Alonso was good, but now, it's seems they are the only one who have the right setup for the car this sunday.
Yeah - that's my point. I'm not saying it was the case, but it certainly raises the question - in a big way.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

zyphro
zyphro
1
Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

Bring back 2010, that season was good :p.

2011 for sure, 2012 is just Pirelli championship; drivers are hardly pushing to the max. It is depressing to watch.

zyphro
zyphro
1
Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

raymondu999 wrote:...

Because with these tyres, the drivers was allow too push like hell.
I think Jarno describes it best :mrgreen: Sadly maybe these are the last times we'll ever hear these words again?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zxNnyfSLTk[/youtube][/quote]

:lol: =D>

Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

raymondu999 wrote:
Nando wrote:The Pirelli's are designed to go around the "bad air" problem we have with these aero dependent cars.
@ Lorenzo, you still can't stay behind another in the high speed stuff.
Last corner and T3 had prime examples of it.
That's DRS, the objective of which was to give an aero advantage to counter the aero disadvantage of dirty air. The Pirellis were made to slow down the car ahead. The car behind will be slowed down by dirty air, no question. The job of Pirelli was to slow down the car ahead (through tyre wear) by a similar amount, to make the overtake possible.
It's early days still, after a few more races they will figure out the tire and THEN the car's strength and and weaknesses will start to come in effect.
That day can't come soon enough.
Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:I'm a ferrari fan and you are right Raymondu. Perez and Alonso was good, but now, it's seems they are the only one who have the right setup for the car this sunday.
Yeah - that's my point. I'm not saying it was the case, but it certainly raises the question - in a big way.
Nope that's the designed cliff that promotes the most overtakes, not DRS.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

I didn't say DRS promoted overtakes. I said the tyre wear disadvantaged the car ahead to equalise the disadvantage of the dirty air.

DRS was designed to cancel out a dirty air disadvantage with a drag advantage, so that there WOULD be overtaking, but it's really either been overdone or underdone, generally speaking.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

Nando
Nando
2
Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

tire wear is the same, the guy in front is actually in a better position because he runs in clean air.
what decides overtakes is when you and the guy in front pitted or who has the most left of the tires.

There no automatic thin that says the guy in front will struggle then the guy behind.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

Of course not. It's not about overtaking between drivers in the same phase of the race - they have to be out of phase/sequence in some fashion before it really does happen. Outside of DRS that's where most of the overtakes have been anyways, except for people who are struggling, such as JB was getting passed left right and center on Sunday, and Rosberg too. Kinda.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

Crabbia
Crabbia
9
Joined: 13 Jun 2006, 22:39
Location: ZA

Re: Pirelli 2011 vs Pirelli 2012

Post

for me its a different formula this year entirely.

its not who has the best technology, or outright balls to the wall pace, or the best race craft/ strategy or the best setup.

its a mix of all of these. granted setup and strategy play a bigger role this year but you can't put an absolute dog on the top step. FA did but he had the weather on his side. None of the cars that have won this year were completely off the pace all of the time. its all gone up and down.

and for that reason i like it. personal preference. i quite like that drivers and teams are rewarded for making the right setup choices and setting a car up well. its a science in itself. why shouldn't they be rewarded for it? We've seen from ferrari and Mercs DDRS that research and changes do pay dividends so its not like the R&D has completely dissapeared either.
A wise man once told me you cant polish a turd...