Vehicle Development Project - Interests

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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Great suggestion humble sabot - LMP2 generally suits the spirit of most posts. Humble. A belated welcome to the Forum

ferrarigp
ferrarigp
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Joined: 13 Mar 2007, 03:13
Location: New York

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I am for LMP2 also.

It is usualy a mix between the different racing cars, so could be interesting.

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Sounds good. I've designed Tubs on CAD before, there's nothing complicated there, and presumably LMP2 cars have flat bottoms so aero won't come into play. Am I right?
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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LMP2? Like in Le Mans Prototype 2 class?

Well, the technical regulations would give a general framework for the project ... http://www.mulsannescorner.com/chassisr ... 7LMP12.pdf ... and a bit of research into what others like Courage, Lola, Radical, Reynard, Pilbeam, Porsche, Zytec and whoever are doing (haven't really been following the Le Mans classes too closely myself, or which teams are involved nowadays) never hurt anyone. I bet at least 3-way drawings are to be found of pretty much every car on the net. Just seeing examples often results in some "I could improve on that" type of realizations.

Here's some pretty recent dilly-dallyish reporting on LMP2 design I came across. Not much substance, but CFD visualizations are always nice to look at ... http://www.manufacturingcenter.com/dfx/ ... D%7D%7D%23 ... (I think it's this car: http://www.zulltec.com/ ... don't know if it's a serious team, though) I've also CAD experience, but won't offer to put it to use just yet. I'm afraid I'll be swamped with my current commitments all spring, but I'll hover around in case there's an opportunity to contribute in any meaningful fashion.

Edit: Sheesh, those technical regulations are a pain to go through ... it's going to take a while. But just leafing through, perhaps LMP2 is a good choice, it need not bee overly complicated (comparing to F1, for instance).
Last edited by checkered on 27 Mar 2007, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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http://www.totallyradicalracing.com/SR9 ... _3_dec.pdf

This is Radical's LMP2 SR9 and may provide a starting point - dimensions, weight targets, wheelbase and track - all very helpful in setting our sights - a guideline - pg 7>16 are some interesting CAD illustrations, pictures show Radical's direction in aero - worth a look. I've always admired Radial's success - we could use this car as a bench mark - anyone else have a LMPS2 you admire - we could creatively mine what has already been done and extend our own vision to an independent design . Perhaps someone might post the FIA specifications - or a link.

Like checkered - I would hover about with suggestions and encouragement - unlike checkered - I have no CAD experience - actually my full knowledge of computer's is - how to type - but I would enjoy a wingman position on the project.

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Porsche Spider, took down Audi in ALMS this year and they're a class below!

Great plan for the Radical, good detailed drawings there, but we can't copy too much, it must be mostly our own.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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Ah yes - I've edited - Noticed that checkered had already posted the 2007 LMP2 Regulations. A good start. Glad to take part.

Edit March 27th Good to see leadership motivating the project. Great to have such new talent - new members on the Forum.
Last edited by Carlos on 27 Mar 2007, 14:12, edited 1 time in total.

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humble sabot
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007, 10:33

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I'd be willing to copy track and wheelbase straight off of something that seems well behaved. Most prototypes are roughly the same though since overall width is mandated. Which is essentially 1600 by 2800mm.

In terms of performance i can't really make a call, but in terms of architecture i have some i quite like. I like the way the forms of the tub and engine integrate on the snobec: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/Snobeck-S3.jpg
I have a soft spot for rotaries though, and their form factor is quite nice.
The integration here on the Panoz lmp07 is wonderful i think: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/panozlmp07-5.html

I'm going to post some paper sketches of concepts in a week or two. Anyone else who can do something similar should as well.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

Schumi Il Maestro
Schumi Il Maestro
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007, 20:00
Location: Formeleinsland

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And after two whole years of stagnation,it looks like we're off the line.....Finally!! :wink:

Waiting for someone to post dev pics....Hope everybody's working.....
Schumi-Sic transit gloria mundi.

Adieu,Michael.You are 'for ever'.

ferrarigp
ferrarigp
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Joined: 13 Mar 2007, 03:13
Location: New York

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I am currently finishing some projects, but should start studying the design as soon as the end of the week.

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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Damn, y'all,

you don't know what you're putting me through with all these proposed projects. Last night I actually woke up - like 2.30 am, or something - all confused and tired after having dreamt quite vividly (bordering on nightmarish) of tangential equations, CAD surface meshing, the most advantageous placing of a gurney flap, single form airfoil drag-to-downforce parameters and the basic structural geometry and longitudinal sections of an LMP2 canopy. In other words, some rather unconscious part of my mind began working the stuff without my explicit permission.

Sheesh.

Now I'm slightly puzzled over whether I should just ignore these sorta things actively (I do have several undertakings and challenges that by all conceivable logical standards are more timely, urgent, more straightforwardly beneficial etc. ...) or somehow get it out of my system. Oh well. I just had to hazmot since this was the first frelling time that an imaginary car, of all things, has awoken me from "fast asleep". An apt term, if one dreams of racecars. Ha, ha.

The story has it, btw, that one mr. Singer came up with his invention after some imaginary character in one of his dreams threatened to kill him with a spear if he didn't invent a sowing machine. The dream/nightmare recurred and mr. Singer observed that the threatening fella had a hole in the tip of his menacing spear, not in the rear as in a conventional needle. And thus, he had come up with the basic invention that made the sowing machine possible.

This is not to say that I'd believe for a moment that my experience was anywhere near as fundamentally inventive as mr Singer's. But it just goes to show that there's a lot more going on in one's head than is immediately obvious. And it might be pretty specific stuff at that.

OK, my inessential rant is over. I'll be back to this thread, though, risking to excite my imagination with this stuff once again.

:)

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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:) :)

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humble sabot
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Joined: 17 Feb 2007, 10:33

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step the next: refining the plan.

ok, open cockpit. that's settled. i suppose we can also say that the wheel location plan is essentially settled. but that only gets us a little way.

What motor should we use? This will define our firewall to some extent.
My preference is to keep that rather open, while using direct fully stressed mounting for stiffness. That doesn't say much, let's get some propositions.

What do you guys think of using a mazda r20b with bespoke end housing to fit the Judd 4.0L pattern? Using f1-style pegs from the firewall.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

AeroGT3
AeroGT3
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 23:22

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Tom wrote:Sounds good. I've designed Tubs on CAD before, there's nothing complicated there, and presumably LMP2 cars have flat bottoms so aero won't come into play. Am I right?
Aero comes to play everywhere mate ;)

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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I was meaning underbody aero, of course the car as a whole will have to be lamina perfection. Is the plan to actually build this car or just design it, if we're building it then it would shurely be much easier to go for LMP3 (it exists) where budgets are smaller and racing is closer.

Why open cockpit by the way? Is there any difference performance wise? I thought a roof would make the car stiffer, more aero friendly and more Class C style beautiful.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.