Lotus F1 Team 2013

[f1engineer]

Yes, i can imagine there is some move between team, and people that are on track operations shall know everybody. I will not ask you your idendity, but as I am a fan of Enstone, I am interested in knowing what people like you think about financial situation of Lotus.

I heard PDSVA will only sponsor if the debt are over, meaning big investor shall enter right now. So the question of Quantum is crucial, but look like really "strange" deal from oustide.

More generally, I can't remember a year with so much team in financial trouble like this. I really think FOM should change the way to redistribute money, it is unstainable with the current rules, apart for 3 teams. What a pitty...

i think that there are 3 teams without any financial issues (red bull, ferrari and mercedes), 2 teams that have a sensible financial approach and other revenues (mclaren and williams), 2 teams that can raise enough money because they will not be competitive (caterham and marussia) and 2 teams that cannot raise enough money to cope with their current outgoings (lotus and sauber)

i think pdvsa will only be a temporary plaster if that - lotus are in a much worse state than sauber and sauber are not at all doing well

i dont see lotus being competitive for 3 or 4 years minimum given the people they have lost and are still losing now

[dren]

How much is Lotus in debt to Genii? $200mil? The way they are set-up, it's Genii who takes the hit. Maldonado brings in $35mil, but that is just a drop in the bucket compared to a budget needed for an entire year, even for a team at the back of the grid. Genii's best bet at this point is to let Lotus default, and then sell the team. I don't know if Genii can afford to do that. Maybe they reduce staff and fund the team at a minimum in hopes money comes in over 2014. I even heard Lotus doesn't have an official engine deal yet.

I'll be surprised if they go racing next year at this point.

[Neno]

How much is Lotus in debt to Genii? $200mil? The way they are set-up, it's Genii who takes the hit. Maldonado brings in $35mil, but that is just a drop in the bucket compared to a budget needed for an entire year, even for a team at the back of the grid. Genii's best bet at this point is to let Lotus default, and then sell the team. I don't know if Genii can afford to do that. Maybe they reduce staff and fund the team at a minimum in hopes money comes in over 2014. I even heard Lotus doesn't have an official engine deal yet.

I'll be surprised if they go racing next year at this point.

What?

Genii owns the team, I mean factory at Enstone. They only carrying name Lotus for some reason (even i dont know why because they dont have Lotus sponsorship or make profit from that), instead calling themself Genii Team. Genii as firm is in debt because they dont have stable financial situation (spending more then they can earn). Only way to surive and have bright future is if they have good sponsorship, preferring main sponsor which they dont have. In past Renault when it owned this factory in Enstone, it had Mildseven for main sponsor and later ING Group.

[zack!]

Concerning the Lotus name, I think at the beginning this name was interresting to be granted an "historical" name to get special funding from FOM. But, it didn't work, still could make the team branding more "appealing" for sponsors.

[dren]

How much is Lotus in debt to Genii? $200mil? The way they are set-up, it's Genii who takes the hit. Maldonado brings in $35mil, but that is just a drop in the bucket compared to a budget needed for an entire year, even for a team at the back of the grid. Genii's best bet at this point is to let Lotus default, and then sell the team. I don't know if Genii can afford to do that. Maybe they reduce staff and fund the team at a minimum in hopes money comes in over 2014. I even heard Lotus doesn't have an official engine deal yet.

I'll be surprised if they go racing next year at this point.

What?

Genii owns the team, I mean factory at Enstone. They only carrying name Lotus for some reason (even i dont know why because they dont have Lotus sponsorship or make profit from that), instead calling themself Genii Team. Genii as firm is in debt because they dont have stable financial situation (spending more then they can earn). Only way to surive and have bright future is if they have good sponsorship, preferring main sponsor which they dont have. In past Renault when it owned this factory in Enstone, it had Mildseven for main sponsor and later ING Group.

I thought I read somewhere that Genii holds the team and loans the team money, so the team is in debt to Genii.

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 15015.html

Q: What’s your take on his reasons for leaving? He always said that he loves the environment at Lotus. Ferrari is obviously tempting, but it also comes with a price tag that reads Alonso…
EB: Well, it is public knowledge by now that we’ve been late in paying him, and he got upset. To manage the cash flow - and I don’t mean the money itself or the budget we have, which is guaranteed by Genii (or at least most of it as we don’t have the revenue stream to allow us to live independently from Genii) - this cash-flow is an issue if you have fixed costs and want to keep up the development level. You have to decide where you want to spend your money. Our suppliers and key people who develop the car were our priority - maybe not Kimi. But Kimi was in a similar position last year and it was all settled by the end of the year. And Genii had the plan to do the same this year.

Q: There is considerable speculation right now about Lotus’s financial situation - rumours that the team is in deep water with significant debts. What is the reality?
EB: Look at some of the other teams: at Red Bull or Mercedes, those companies are sponsoring the teams. Genii has a different strategy: they loan the money. It is part of the strategy that partners join the team and Genii will get back their investment. Seventy-five percent of the debt Lotus has comes from Genii. They could write it off tomorrow by saying this money is a sponsorship - and then our debt would be drastically reduced. Our normal debt is similar to most of the other teams. Take Mercedes for example: they could say that the money they invest in Brackley is only a loan - then the debt of the team would be seriously higher than ours.

[Pierce89]

Well... Who says "We've got a pile of debt bigger than you can shake a stick at"?

[lio007]

Any rumors about their next year's engine supllier?
I think Lotus is the only team that hasn't confirmed their engine?
Very likely it will be Renault, but who knows.

[beelsebob]

Could it be that Lotus haven't paid Renault, and Renault have not allowed them to renew their contract?

[bill shoe]

Could it be that Lotus haven't paid Renault, and Renault have not allowed them to renew their contract?

Seems improbable that Renault engines have not been confirmed for 2014, but after a quick search of their website I did not see any mention of Renault (or anyone else) as 2014 engine supplier.

I'll feel better when Lotus puts a 2014-spec car with a 2014-spec engine onto a track under its own power. We'll see.

[iotar__]

i'd be surprised if lotus make it to jerez at the current rate

they're not just bleeding big names, they're bleeding everyone now. no contract enforcement allowed due to late payment of salaries. i can't count on my fingers/toes the number of people who have left (not including anyone who is a junior engineer)

the issue is that car build happens now over the last weeks of december and the first weeks of january. design offices, aero departments and production work flat out over this period, losing a number of people and not being able to pay those that you need to work every non-xmas day on time is going to have serious consequences

[I don't know if it's more pre season car speculation than Lotus 2013 team topic?]

OK, thanks for clarification - delay because of staff issues, possibly Jerez. What about finances affecting car development (cuts in plan of updates etc.)? I remember Allison saying that before the season period is the most expensive. I'd imagine it's about direct cost of design, production, similar to mid-season updates that stop at the teams like FI. I'd be worried about that more than missing Jerez although with new engines it's much more important than last time, we'll see.

This other prediction about "not being competitive for 3-4 years": I'd say it too long of a period to even mention it, alternative is not not being competitive but Genii leaving altogether. Also having relatively stable finances thanks to extra money from Ecclestone for nothing and Maldonado didn't help Williams much recently, not only compared to Lotus but the likes of Force India or Sauber. Caterham/Marussia are losing money AND are not competitive at all - survival mode - it's a different story and scale.

[Jonnycraig]

Some employees & suppliers still awaiting payment. Still no engine supplier in place:
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/formula1/art- ... 79156.html

Hard to see them on the grid as things stand.

[Gridlock]

Some employees & suppliers still awaiting payment. Still no engine supplier in place:
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/formula1/art- ... 79156.html

Hard to see them on the grid as things stand.

I'm sure they have a level of protection in place that other teams are lacking, if we were to view various agreements

There's no way Hulkenberg's luck is this good either

[Juzh]

Apparently Kimi and his management wanted to settle for 5 million € but could not even be promised that much.

"Owed something in the region of €20m, he tried to settle for around €5m and even that proved a challenge for the financially strapped outfit."

From JAonF1.com

[Gridlock]

Presumably 5m is roughly the cost of his expenses for the period (jet rental, minibar)...

[dren]

I don't think we will be seeing this team next year on the grid.