Mercedes AMG F1 W04

[Ferraripilot]

I can really believe that what Marko says is true. Too much df can be too much for the tires to handle.(take for example the exploding tires on the Nissans in Road atlanta 1992, or ask Audi on their R15.)

I do believe that this is a slight problem for the Red Bull. Red Bull have been running surprisingly low AoA on their wings, which lets me believe that the Red Bull is indeed capable of running downforce levels that is too much for the tires to handle.

but I cannot see any 'silver bullet' innovation which would allow RB9 to be half a second+ quicker than anyone else.

Yet they pretty much are.

W04, E21, F138 all seem to be at a similar level (within half a second of one another)

Really?

meaning it is probable that their front and rear downforce levels are within 15-20 points of one another yet -especially Lotus-

How the hell do you get those numbers?

others aren't complaining to such an extravagant level as Red Bull nor are they having to be quite as mindful. Looking forward to this weekend.

Because they do not have similair levels of df.

As I stated in my post, I could be famously wrong but I just don't see a 'silver bullet' anywhere on RB9 which affords them to be so much quicker than others if they simply turned the downforce on further. Mclaren was every bit as quick as they were last year, quicker at the end of the season, and I certainly don't see RB9 as some massive evolution to RB8.

15-20 points is simply conjecture I'm offering based on the approximate lap time differences we're seeing. It's just a number of a hat that fits with the possible lap time differentials. One must remember that W04, had it remained dry in Malaysia, was 100% set to be on pole as it was massively quicker during Q2 yet it simply doesn't have the tire issues RB9 seems to have.

Looking forward to seeing how RB reacts on such a long straight compared to W04 and E21 who seem to have the best handle on tires IMO.

[Ferraripilot]

There's a saying that more downforce increases tyre wear, but less downforce makes it even worse. Decreasing the downforce decreases grip and makes the car more prone to sliding. More downforce is more about underdriving the car.

More downforce DECREASES tyre wear no matter what. You slide less, have less slip - the tyres like that, and the rubber stays on the tyre better. You grain less, too.

But what more downforce does is pump energy into the tyres. You deflect more in heavy cornering, you corner quicker, you put the power down earlier, brake later/harder - all things that put more energy into the tyres. Even in the straights the tyre deforms more as there is more downforce trying to "flatten" the tyres - think of trying to flatten a toilet roll by using your hand as a downforce "source" and rolling it along a surface - and the constant flattening/inflating of the tyres as it rotates through the flattening means the tyre gets it all around. This energy manifests itself as heat - and hence, thermal degradation.

In Melbourne the Red Bull had no problems with wear - it was completing the same stint lengths that the Ferrari was doing - but it had problems ending the stints with good corner pace. But you have to wonder, in a way - if this was truly the case (excessive downforce overheating the tyres) why did they overheat in cold Melbourne but not in hot Sepang? It could be that some other trick is at play, other than overheating. Which brings to mind the comments about Melbourne not helping the Bulls put their tyres in the optimum window.

Agreed. Red Bull isn't having a tire issue specifically related to downforce, but rather its suspension and its reaction to the tires with that downforce is the issue. It's not 'soft' when it needs to be as W04 is.

Scarbs wrote a brilliant article about the new Fric system on the sub area of Autosport.

[R_Redding]

15-20 points is simply conjecture I'm offering based on the approximate lap time differences we're seeing

To put that in context (for which I was at a loss for a while)..

Paddy Lowe has been quoted as saying that "30 DF points roughly equate to 1 second of laptime" (M.Whitmarsh stated 25pts = 1 second).

and this thread
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... f=6&t=8250

has a very good explanation of how a "point" is calculated.

Rob

[raymondu999]

I just don't see a 'silver bullet' anywhere on RB9 which affords them to be so much quicker

See it or not - they are "so much quicker."

I certainly don't see RB9 as some massive evolution to RB8.

Cry me a river. People didn't see the RB8 as a massive evolution to the RB7, nor the RB7 of the RB6, nor RB6 of the RB5. Fact is the cars have maintained their "quickest car" status since mid-09 (granted, the RB8 had a lot of latent unlocked pace at the start that took a while to unlock) despite being only slight evolutions year on year.

"looks like" and "seems like" are no match for "is" and "are."

15-20 points is simply conjecture I'm offering based on the approximate lap time differences we're seeing.

See R_Redding's post above.

One must remember that W04, had it remained dry in Malaysia, was 100% set to be on pole as it was massively quicker during Q2

One must remember that Q2, without any had its, will not see every car pushing 100%. Some will be doing "just enough to go by." How many times has the car/driver who topped Q2 gone on to pole Q3? One must remember that Vettel was on very old option tyres in Q2.

Looking forward to seeing how RB reacts on such a long straight compared to W04 and E21 who seem to have the best handle on tires IMO.

Interesting. Why are you singling out the straight vs the tyres? Performance/laptime wise, the straight is the area where the tyres matter the least, so I'm intrigued with your reasoning.

[wesley123]

With the setup Red Bull uses many guys will have a hard time to catch the Red Bull in the DRS zone. So I dont see top speed as an issue here.

Not to mention they already have a bit of reduced drag due to their low AoA

[k.ko100v]

China 2013 - Thursday (11.04.2013)
From first view front wing update.

[BorisTheBlade]

Front: New FW
Back: Old FW

The Flap seems to have changed.

[Cam]

I've not noticed the slits towards the bottom of both pillions. Are they there to allow flex?

[k.ko100v]

I've not noticed the slits towards the bottom of both pillions. Are they there to allow flex?

I think, they are for quick mounting the cameras.

[stefan_]

China 2013 - Thursday (11.04.2013)

[turbof1]

The endplate of the cascade has a weird curving (new FW). Vortice creation?

[gray41]

Nice to see front wing tweaks.

[k.ko100v]

I see a different mirrors, the one on nico`s car is more pointy, and has some little slot in the outside... Seems very interesting.
But that slot may be not real...

[tranquility2k4]

China 2013 - Thursday (11.04.2013)
http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/image ... 484445.jpg

I am struggling to see what is new for the front wing, maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Which is new and old and what has changed? Someone could help by drawing on arrows lol.

[stefan_]

China 2013 - Thursday (11.04.2013)
http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/image ... 484445.jpg

I am struggling to see what is new for the front wing, maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Which is new and old and what has changed? Someone could help by drawing on arrows lol.

New one is on top.