2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[Nomore]

you must have been watching a different race. I clearly heard his engineer say "not too put up too much of a fight". And im sorry for your disability to analyse moving pictures; but Vettel did not defend at all against Kimi, which i dont mind being a Kimi fan. However it would have been nicer (for all the fans of the sport) to see them fight for position, instead of handing them out on silver platters!

No sir, I have watched Barcelona 2013. I have the feeling (hope I’m wrong) that when people don’t have arguments they start with “you must have been watching a different race”. I never start an argument like this because it’s useless and inappropriate, first because not only who comes here to comment have watched the race but also if you don’t have television you need torrent (free) to watch (in a relaxed mode) the race.

To clarify my opinion in radio transmissions: For me what they say, it has a 0 value or importance, what they DO is important.
Vettel for 2-3 laps tried to make sure Raikkonen was behind him, then Vettel (by looking at Raikkonen speed) know it 100% then an overtake was in the air … so if he anticipated with 2-3 corners does not change the statement the he tried to defend but unfortunately fail

If radio transmissions were forbidden would you have notice something?
I personally I’m against them, it’s their affair to what they say, what they want, and how they want … would you like that someone monitors you when you are talking with a college in the office…

I turn on the tv to see how they fare behind the steering wheel and not what they say… I also prefer to watch without comment, but only engine mode

to go back to the drawing board means they have to rethink/brainstorm what is causing this issue; it does not mean by default, that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the car --> you must have read the articles by now by Toto Wolf and others stating that it is not the car, but has something to do with how the tires are prepared

Toto wolf is a businessman, from a business point of view is better that the tires adapt to us then that we have to adapt to the tires … Why to lose money in rebuild the car (when we have made it wrong for the 4th year in a row) when using politics to change tires in our favour …is much more easy,, isn’t it??

We must hear what Pat Fry, Alan Permane...etc says in that matter, if 11 TD agrees that is something wrong with the tires then I agree too that is something wrong with the tires.

If 1 or 2 says different things then it’s just their business

[turbof1]

No sir, I have watched Barcelona 2013. I have the feeling (hope I’m wrong) that when people don’t have arguments they start with “you must have been watching a different race”. I never start an argument like this because it’s useless and inappropriate, first because not only who comes here to comment have watched the race but also if you don’t have television you need torrent (free) to watch (in a relaxed mode) the race.

I have rewatched the race. At one point Kimi tried to go around the outside of Vettel (somewhere in the middle of the circuit). Vettel defended by letting his car run wide in the corner, pushing Kimi completely on the curbstones. It was nice defending there, but nowhere near a crash. At heighest it could have resulted into some minor wheel bumping, nothing more. But ok, you are right about that part. He did defend his position
However, the others were right about Kimi's next attempt at the end of the main straight. Vettel could have easily blocked Kimi at that point, but choose to let him pas. He was ordered to stop defending against Kimi right before it.

So in other words you are both right.

One remark though: f1 footage through torrents is NOT freeware, but illegally optained footage. Please be correct about that.

Toto wolf is a businessman, from a business point of view is better that the tires adapt to us then that we have to adapt to the tires … Why to lose money in rebuild the car (when we have made it wrong for the 4th year in a row) when using politics to change tires in our favour …is much more easy,, isn’t it??

We must hear what Pat Fry, Alan Permane...etc says in that matter, if 11 TD agrees that is something wrong with the tires then I agree too that is something wrong with the tires.

If 1 or 2 says different things then it’s just their business

Essentially everybody who has contact with the public is a businessman in F1. Don't think that what TDs tell you is always sincere. You mentioned Pat Fry; of course he will tell that the tyres don't need alterations. Ferrari has a big stake in keeping the current tyres because they are giving them a competitive advantage. Even if he believed the tyres really are crap, he would still tell the opposite. Don't get me wrong, ferrari's tyre advantage is not undeserved. It's only that Pat fry is no less a businessman then Toto Wolf.

That said, Toto Wolf did not mention the tyres need changes. I do not think making better lasting tyres will solve their issues that simple either, something Toto Wolf does seem to acknowledge by mentioning internal procedures of prepping the tyres.

[motobaleno]

What you have now is the fastest teams sacrificing qualifying position in favour of tyre life in race stints. You then get these cars easing themselves into their correct positions in the first stint before settling into a 50+ lap cruise.

that's completeley not true!
do you think that mercedes got first line because some others sacrified qualifying position!? who?
do you think that rb was faster than merc in quali? ora that ferrari is sanbagging with their problems in quali?
there are absolutely not evidence of this.
but much more important where did you see the 50 lap cruise?! did you watch another gp?
I watched a race were at 10 laps from flag we still have battle for the second and 3rd positions!
and you are forgetting that we are talking about one of the most boring circuit of all the championship a circuit were usually the real gp was on saturday!

[fiohaa]

If you think that the first two stints were done at 90% that Ferrari must be a real beast and not showing of the real potential.
IMO Alonso in the first 2 stints was pushing really hard to make that strategy of 4 stops work.

Comparing his laptimes with the qualifying laptimes might be enlightening.
In his best laps he was about 6-7s slower than in Quali.
Do you really feel that is 100% of the performance the car could achieve??? Is that a beast in your view?
For me the laptimes during the race compared to quali are solid proof that noone, read not a single one of the drivers was driving at the ultimate limit of their cars.
If that is good racing for you more power to you.
For me I have to say: No thanks.

indeed.
id rather have a procession of cars with drivers all trying their hardest to overtake the guy infront, then this.
Looks like all the main players agree.

they want to go back to 2012 tyres....which im still not happy with. i would rather have grooved bridgestones and DRS, would be fantastic (im not a fan of DRS in its current form, its too powerful, but i can see why it is needed in F1 because of the turbulence which isn't as bad in other forms of motorsport)

but oh well - 2012 pirellis is better than 2013 zero racing.
I CANT DRIVE ANY SLOWER.

Fantastic f1, the pinnacle.

ps. you will always have some kind of team domination due to the BUDGETS people. BUDGETS. If you want different winners and different teams winning, EASY - BUDGET CAP. Done.

[Jonnycraig]

What you have now is the fastest teams sacrificing qualifying position in favour of tyre life in race stints. You then get these cars easing themselves into their correct positions in the first stint before settling into a 50+ lap cruise.

that's completeley not true!
do you think that mercedes got first line because some others sacrified qualifying position!? who?
do you think that rb was faster than merc in quali? ora that ferrari is sanbagging with their problems in quali?
there are absolutely not evidence of this.
but much more important where did you see the 50 lap cruise?! did you watch another gp?
I watched a race were at 10 laps from flag we still have battle for the second and 3rd positions!
and you are forgetting that we are talking about one of the most boring circuit of all the championship a circuit were usually the real gp was on saturday!

Red Bull could easily be on pole, but they would be pitting on lap 2 or 3. Alonso has already stated that qualifying has lost it importance, primarily because you can just cruise past the teams who have gone for glory when their tyres go.

With regards 50 lap cruises, Malaysia was synchronised cruising bar 2 laps of racing from RB. China was synchronised cruising bar 5 qualifying laps by Vettel. Bahrain was cruising after Vettel jumped Rosberg on lap 3 with only the McLarens racing each other and as for Spain, don't make me laugh.

Feel free to point out the times in races where we have has any true flat out racing after the first 3/4 laps? Malaysia for 2 laps. That's it.

[Redragon]

The best analysis so far of the actual situation on F1
and he used to be on Redbull. I think his old team should learn a bit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22512693

[kooleracer]

"We're looking at compounds and structure, and the idea is obviously to get back to our two/three stop strategies," Hembery said. "What you've got at the moment is a combination of the cars are really going hard - much harder than we had anticipated, big steps forward in performance - together with a structure that pushes very heavily the compounds. It's a very aggressive structure in the corners and you're pushing the compounds beyond the limits.
ESPNF1, interview with Paul Hembery.

Basically saying the tyres can't cope with the performance of the car. Something Red Bull said earlier this season. Real find this statement shocking. So Red Bull and Merc are the quickest cars and both teams are suffering the most from this 2013 tyre. So now days building the fastest cars is a penalty.....F1 becoming a real joke. STR being 1.1 sec of the quali pace being quicker then Lewis Hamilton during the race. This less down force gives the tyres an easier time during the race which means you can go quicker during the race....thats F1 in 2013 in a nutshell.

[fiohaa]

Red Bull could easily be on pole, but they would be pitting on lap 2 or 3. Alonso has already stated that qualifying has lost it importance, primarily because you can just cruise past the teams who have gone for glory when their tyres go.

With regards 50 lap cruises, Malaysia was synchronised cruising bar 2 laps of racing from RB. China was synchronised cruising bar 5 qualifying laps by Vettel. Bahrain was cruising after Vettel jumped Rosberg on lap 3 with only the McLarens racing each other and as for Spain, don't make me laugh.

Feel free to point out the times in races where we have has any true flat out racing after the first 3/4 laps? Malaysia for 2 laps. That's it.

damn right!
oh apparently if we don't have these tyres, we will go back to 'processions' (whatever that actually means, you can find those in any motorsport category).
well.....its like ......what do they think is happening at the moment?!

[sAx]

I think it's definitely an issue with the tyres. Jenson Button had quite a bit to say about it all:

"It is a right mess..."

Source: http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3373/871 ... -and-round

Oh and check out the odd type of wear on Perez's tyres at the end of the race:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fISg0MDTWk8/U ... /Tires.jpg

Now is that a Right Mess or what?

Don't think I have ever seen a tyre looking like this a thte end of a race, not even a flat-spotted one!

[turbof1]

It looks a bit worse then it actually is; don't forget the drivers pick up marbles after the finish line. That's what you are seeing around the hole.

The big hole in the rubber though is very disturbing. The name of the tyres comes in appropriate here: Zero rubber at that spot.

[Redragon]

"We're looking at compounds and structure, and the idea is obviously to get back to our two/three stop strategies," Hembery said. "What you've got at the moment is a combination of the cars are really going hard - much harder than we had anticipated, big steps forward in performance - together with a structure that pushes very heavily the compounds. It's a very aggressive structure in the corners and you're pushing the compounds beyond the limits.
ESPNF1, interview with Paul Hembery.

Basically saying the tyres can't cope with the performance of the car. Something Red Bull said earlier this season. Real find this statement shocking. So Red Bull and Merc are the quickest cars and both teams are suffering the most from this 2013 tyre. So now days building the fastest cars is a penalty.....F1 becoming a real joke. STR being 1.1 sec of the quali pace being quicker then Lewis Hamilton during the race. This less down force gives the tyres an easier time during the race which means you can go quicker during the race....thats F1 in 2013 in a nutshell.

Maybe Redbull is the one that can't cope with this tyres, let's remind you what they were doing back on 2011
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/09/p ... -in-monza/

[Nomore]

Don't think that what TDs tell you is always sincere

Here again also I don't see the meaning since this is what I have said.

We must hear what Pat Fry, Alan Permane...etc says in that matter, if 11 TD agrees that is something wrong with the tires then I agree too that is something wrong with the tires

If 1 or 2 says different things then it’s just their business

I see that you re-quote me but I have the perception that you haven’t read my quote.

I didn't say Pat fry I say all of them ALL. If all agree I agree.

And please if really a response is needed, and new things are faced, I will be happy to read and learn new things…if people just keep repeating what I say or repeat the same thing that I have already responded ...it will be a little bit boring to read and write the same thing.

[SiLo]

The unpredictability has now become predictable.

I would rather watch the drivers bleeding every inch of speed out of the car, rather than driving slowly to maybe go faster later on. If we still had bridgestones I wouldn't mind not refuelling.

I feel DRS was enough to change the racing around without the need for Pirelli AND KERS.

**EDIT**

Thankfully for me, Kimi pulled up to second. Had a tasty £10 bed either way on Alonso and Kimi which netted me £55!

[Philledan]

If radio transmissions were forbidden would you have notice something?

yes i would have noticed the same thing we all noticed, apart from you it seems...we all noticed vettel not putting up a fight to defend his 2nd place

Toto wolf is a businessman, from a business point of view is better that the tires adapt to us then that we have to adapt to the tires … Why to lose money in rebuild the car (when we have made it wrong for the 4th year in a row) when using politics to change tires in our favour …is much more easy,, isn’t it??

We must hear what Pat Fry, Alan Permane...etc says in that matter, if 11 TD agrees that is something wrong with the tires then I agree too that is something wrong with the tires.

how about the majority of the drivers stating there is an issue, even Button, widely considered as being relatively gentle on the tires? Is it just me, or is really everyone around and inside the F1-scene talking about these tires? It must be all of us being blind, and just you being the only one to see the clear picture then? Did u notice that everyone on here is also talking about the tires being too much of a determing factor for the race result? It amazes me how you can ignore such an obvious problem in F1...these cars are racing only 5seconds quickers than a GP3 car

[turbof1]

What I said is :

“if you don’t have television you need torrent (free) to watch (in a relaxed mode) the race.”

Yes I've readed the first time you don't have television. Basicilly I dont care.
What I do care about is you just find it ok to illegally download the race. The program itself is legal, but downloading copyright protected content is not. Not that I care about what you do, but ranting about it on a forum is out of line and goes against forum policy.

Reported to moderators.