2013 Monaco Grand Prix

[Jonnycraig]

EDIT: Red Bull is fast car that is for sure. But their win's get from race with mixed conditions

Yes, the conditions in Bahrain were very mixed. It was 39C on Friday and Saturday and 40C in Sunday. Carnage!

Vettel for me is not leading championship, you need too take 7 points from his score, because those are Webber's points.

[Overdriving]

EDIT: Red Bull is fast car that is for sure. But their win's get from race with mixed conditions (when they need heat up tires quickly in one lap and run away), something similar like Ferrari last year. They obvious have problems with tires as they can't push enough in dry. Vettel for me is not leading championship, you need too take 7 points from his score, because those are Webber's points.

Vettel is leading the championship on merit. I'm no fan of his, but it is obvious that he's been outperforming the car this season. Give credit when it's due. His performance in Bahrain was superb and it wasn't in mixed conditions. He and Kimi are the best performing and most consistent drivers so far.

[henra]

If others can fill only 75% of the answers then yes, which in this case can do all teams, everyone get this much "ink". But if my pen spending much more ink then others i would buy a new one, in this case not buy same one (made same mistake as Mercedes creating that kind of car who is hard on tires). You can't blame ink for your pen.

I'm really shocked to see how happily People sacrifice real racing at the limits if it seems to help their favoured Team/Driver.

I'm wondering how these same people would scream and shout should the situation be inverse and RB would be profiting from these limiting tyres.

I have absolutely no Problems with limitations. but they should be 'hard' limitations, not forcing the drivers to trade or to balance.
What I absolutely don't like about current F1 is F1 Drivers seeming to be 80% occupied by 'Managing' (tyres) and only 20% by fighting/racing. And when trying to fight, they are called to back off by their Teams.
Is that really your idea of Motor Sports?

[Neno]

If others can fill only 75% of the answers then yes, which in this case can do all teams, everyone get this much "ink". But if my pen spending much more ink then others i would buy a new one, in this case not buy same one (made same mistake as Mercedes creating that kind of car who is hard on tires). You can't blame ink for your pen.

I'm really shocked to see how happily People sacrifice real racing at the limits if it seems to help their favoured Team/Driver.

I'm wondering how these same people would scream and shout should the situation be inverse and RB would be profiting from these limiting tyres.

I have absolutely no Problems with limitations. but they should be 'hard' limitations, not forcing the drivers to trade or to balance.
What I absolutely don't like about current F1 is F1 Drivers seeming to be 80% occupied by 'Managing' (tyres) and only 20% by fighting/racing. And when trying to fight, they are called to back off by their Teams.
Is that really your idea of Motor Sports?

I gave up on that word long time ago. F1 dont represent that word anymore, not from 2007 as they first drove away Michelin and stopped Renault domination just to not become new Ferrari, then 2009 they stopped with pure racing, creating fake show for bigger mass. Why can't you just agree this is show and it will never be a pure sport again, maybe not even from 2014.

[MuseF1]

EDIT: Red Bull is fast car that is for sure. But their win's get from race with mixed conditions (when they need heat up tires quickly in one lap and run away), something similar like Ferrari last year. They obvious have problems with tires as they can't push enough in dry. Vettel for me is not leading championship, you need too take 7 points from his score, because those are Webber's points.

Vettel is leading the championship on merit. I'm no fan of his, but it is obvious that he's been outperforming the car this season. Give credit when it's due. His performance in Bahrain was superb and it wasn't in mixed conditions. He and Kimi are the best performing and most consistent drivers so far.

I would argue that Alonso's DRS failure in Bahrain helped him with the championship lead a fair bit. We can't say that his performance was superb as he was never challenged.

[flynfrog]

Maybe they should as also then set a rule that they are allowed to fit rocket propelled granates inside the sidepods and allow once a lap to blow up a competitor. Because as long as its a rule everything is ok I guess?

It's not because it's a rule, it is holy and untouchable.

maybe you don't understand my point is that racing is about much more than just driving fast. Managing tires has always been part of racing. It affects not only the driving but also the setup. I personally don't care for the single tire maker or the DRS. You seem to think that F1 was at one time a magical series that drivers ran 70 qualifying laps with no regard for saving the car.

[turbof1]

I understood the point, but I do not think you are getting mine: although being part of racing, it is not what people want to see. Nobody is getting a boner from looking drivers act like high class gentlemen, roll out the red carpet for the driver on newer rubber behind and let him pass by without putting up a decent effort being a prick and trying to block.

Part of racing: yes. Part of what people want to see: no. Fast degrading tyres were introduced to increase the show, but the current ones are contra-productive.

I know what racing holds today and what it held in the past. Tyre management was there to a degree, certainly not like it is today, but it mattered much less then it does now. Drivers certainly wouldn't be letting the driver pass by just to spare the tyres.

But hey, I am confident you love seeing drivers giving it all to get that extra lap out of their tyres right?

[Overdriving]

I would argue that Alonso's DRS failure in Bahrain helped him with the championship lead a fair bit. We can't say that his performance was superb as he was never challenged.

He was challenged. It's not like he got the pole and had an easy win. He overtook both Alonso and Rosberg before Alonso's DRS failure happened--before DRS was even enabled. He was completely untouchable in that race, making crucial overtakes and managing the tyres perfectly. And we can't put it down to the car, because Webber's pace was nowhere.
And Alonso's Bahrain misfortune does in no way diminish Vettel's performance this year. I have to say Vettel surprised be a lot this season. Very pleasantly surprised. He's been as close to flawless as it gets, similar to Alonso-2012, maybe even better.

[MuseF1]

He was challenged. It's not like he got the pole and had an easy win. He overtook both Alonso and Rosberg before Alonso's DRS failure happened--before DRS was even enabled. He was completely untouchable in that race, making crucial overtakes and managing the tyres perfectly. And we can't put it down to the car, because Webber's pace was nowhere.
And Alonso's Bahrain misfortune does in no way diminish Vettel's performance this year. I have to say Vettel surprised be a lot this season. Very pleasantly surprised. He's been as close to flawless as it gets, similar to Alonso-2012, maybe even better.

You make good points, I think you're right. I wouldn't go as far as to say he was untouchable though. I really think Alonso could have challenged for the win, so silly of him to activate the DRS again after it was broken

[Overdriving]

You make good points, I think you're right. I wouldn't go as far as to say he was untouchable though. I really think Alonso could have challenged for the win, so silly of him to activate the DRS again after it was broken

Yes, of course Alonso would have challenged for the win, as he's got the best car this season. I agree with you that he shouldn't have activated the DRS again--he could have been close to podium if he didn't. And Kimi could have challenged for the win too if he qualified better. But he didn't, so it's neither here nor there now. That weekend Vettel was the one who got the job done both in qualifying and race.

Back on topic: let's not forget that rain is possible during Qualifying. So Merc pole is not a given. Though if it's dry, my money is on Rosberg.

[godlameroso]

If others can fill only 75% of the answers then yes, which in this case can do all teams, everyone get this much "ink". But if my pen spending much more ink then others i would buy a new one, in this case not buy same one (made same mistake as Mercedes creating that kind of car who is hard on tires). You can't blame ink for your pen.

I'm really shocked to see how happily People sacrifice real racing at the limits if it seems to help their favoured Team/Driver.

I'm wondering how these same people would scream and shout should the situation be inverse and RB would be profiting from these limiting tyres.

I have absolutely no Problems with limitations. but they should be 'hard' limitations, not forcing the drivers to trade or to balance.
What I absolutely don't like about current F1 is F1 Drivers seeming to be 80% occupied by 'Managing' (tyres) and only 20% by fighting/racing. And when trying to fight, they are called to back off by their Teams.
Is that really your idea of Motor Sports?

You still have to drive at the limit or you get passed, it's just a different type of limit.

[f1316]

I would have thought that - IF RB do have all this downforce they're usually unable to use and IF their recent relative lack of quali pace compared to merc is due to having to set up the car for the race (at the cost of one lap speed) - this weekend would allow them to ignore these issues.

At Monaco they could set up the car to maximise the huge downforce they have, knowing that pole is most of the battle won. That seems like a no brainer.

So if they don't get pole, surely this idea of a superior red bull being held back more than others by tyres can be put to bed?

[Chuckjr]

I don't think so because so little can be changed on the car post quali and I don't think their dump loads of lost downforce only come from wing adjustments....Maybe setting the car up with the extra 1000 points (lol) of downforce they have in pocket would make the options last only 2 laps and the primes 10 laps...in which case they'd be screwed.

[godlameroso]

We haven't seen what the cars are really capable of yet, I'd wager there's at least two cars in the 13's come Saturday. This might be one of those crazy Monaco GP where people actually make a pass on track as opposed to creating a train all race.

[raymondu999]

I would have thought that - IF RB do have all this downforce they're usually unable to use and IF their recent relative lack of quali pace compared to merc is due to having to set up the car for the race (at the cost of one lap speed) - this weekend would allow them to ignore these issues.

At Monaco they could set up the car to maximise the huge downforce they have, knowing that pole is most of the battle won. That seems like a no brainer.

So if they don't get pole, surely this idea of a superior red bull being held back more than others by tyres can be put to bed?

Actually, the tyre situation at Monza 2012 comes to mind. A one-stopper being marginal, Mercedes committed to a 2-stopper from the off. It could be perhaps that the Red Bull has been set up for a 1-stop. I don't think the situation is as clear a 1-stop as some people think (myself included, before the weekend)