2013 British GP - Silverstone

[iotar__]

Some bold predictions about Ferrari's dominance over Red Bull. Especially when tyre choices are not announced and weather uncertain. RB were fine last season and Alonso between them shouldn't have happened. Also Canada was an example of how lobbying for conservative choices works, in an era of high deg tyres DiResta could go for 56 laps. As I said: mediums on all but street tracks They should go for hard-soft.

Any bets on Mercedes exclusion from the race , is it even an option? [it's no going to happen]. Everything should be more or less the same, maybe comparatively towards Ferrari and Lotus. Silverstone will be a good yardstick if the latter is in trouble.

Lopez is lately v. vocal in the press and sounds rather panicky while not making much sense. Firstly they decided they'd rather overpay one driver instead of spending money on car development, then they decided they don't need two drivers in the beginning of the season, finally they decided they don't need technical director in the middle of the season. What can possibly go wrong? It looks like Allison left not only without a contract but also without a clear destination. It didn't look like planned event from either side.

Having said that they should be fine in Silverstone or mighty fine with "the device's" debut They're not going to run it, just test, right?

[raymondu999]

Especially when tyre choices are not announced and weather uncertain.

True - but I don't expect the soft to appear here. Medium and Hard at the softest. Fair point on the weather. I'm revising my predictions - Alonso to win in the dry, Vettel in the wet.

RB were fine last season and Alonso between them shouldn't have happened.

Ah, but their struggles this season at front-limited tracks is much more relevant than whatever happened with the RB8 (a different car on different tyres)

They should go for hard-soft.

Doubt it. They've historically gone for equal compound selections between Barcelona, Bahrain and Silverstone in 2011 and 2012. I don't expect that to change.

I wouldn't know that - but what we have seen is a trend that the Ferrari has liked front-limited circuits more than the Red Bull so far.

Again, isn't it mostly because of the tyres?? What I mean is the Red Bull supposedly suffers a lot on front limited tracks because of the excessive degradation whereas the Ferrari seems to handle these forces quite well preventing excessive degradation. This is just my interpretation of what has happened so far.

When doing such predictions, the "why" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter *why* Red Bull suffered in front limited China/Barcelona - it just matters that they did. If the same track characteristics that hurt Red Bull's tyres in Barcelona/China are applicable to Silverstone - which I believe they are - then it stands to reason that the same impacts will be felt.

However, the possibility that they have improved their setup for front-limited circuits does remain. But I don't think it was enough to counter the big deficit they saw in China/Silverstone.

[Steven]

Btw, it´s not summer break now is it? 18 days??? crazy..

I know, its a weird calendar this year, we have this 3 week break and another before the 4 week summer break, crazy stuff

No worries though. It's Le Mans on 22 and 23 of June

[godlameroso]

What is the most rear limited track on the 2013 calendar?

Tough question. Canada? Monza? Singapore?

I think that probably the most rear limited track is Singapore followed by Canada and Monaco.

I also don't find Monza to be rear limited track - both lesmos and parabolica (and curva grande if you count it as a corner) are medium to high speed corners. And even Acsari is not your typical chicane.

Wether a circuit is front or rear limited depends not just on circuit layout but how a car goes around a corner, some cars have the front downforce needed to just turn the wheel at high speeds, others with less df require using the throttle to balance the car more. Lets take the right hand sweeper after hangar straight as an example. With more downforce you can carry more speed after the braking point because you can break less and the car can still hug the apex, wheras a car with less downforce has to break more because it doesn't have the downforce to hug the apex. To compensate it must find a way to get on the power earlier. Often times a bit of wheelspin is involved putting more stress on the rears.

Another key aspect that determines what part of the car gets used more is to look at the braking. Often times heavy braking leads to low speed acceleration, in Silverstone only Vale to club corner requires heavy braking, this is probably the most rear limited corner. The exit from the new infield section is easily done flat out and the braking zone is really trail braking. So is Brooklands, and the following turn no real braking is done, the rest of the lap is just light taps on the breaks.

[obraz]

Again - we don't know *why* the cars perform that way, but what we *do* know is that in the tracks we've seen so far, Red Bull has the advantage at rear-limited, Ferrari at front-limited.

What about Lotus and Mercedes?
Hamilton was 3rd in China but struggled in Spain and both are front-limited tracks.

Btw, Nürburgring, the track after the british GP is it front-limited too?

[raymondu999]

Again - we don't know *why* the cars perform that way, but what we *do* know is that in the tracks we've seen so far, Red Bull has the advantage at rear-limited, Ferrari at front-limited.

What about Lotus and Mercedes?
Hamilton was 3rd in China but struggled in Spain and both are front-limited tracks.

Btw, Nürburgring, the track after the british GP is it front-limited too?

Lotus seems to me more temp sensitive. It has a good balance front to rear, and it doesn't mind whether a circuit is front or rear limited. Merc is worse at rear limited, IMO.

Nurburgring... Never knew what to make of it really. Very frnt limited in some sections, very rear limited in other sections.

[Vasconia]

What is the most rear limited track on the 2013 calendar?

Tough question. Canada? Monza? Singapore?

I think that probably the most rear limited track is Singapore followed by Canada and Monaco.

I also don't find Monza to be rear limited track - both lesmos and parabolica (and curva grande if you count it as a corner) are medium to high speed corners. And even Acsari is not your typical chicane.

True, Monza has very fast corners, nothing to do with Montreal and Monaco, which are full of slow corners.

Alonso needs to win in England and Germany because in Hungary Vettel will smash Ferrari.

[stefan_]

Btw, it´s not summer break now is it? 18 days??? crazy..

I know, its a weird calendar this year, we have this 3 week break and another before the 4 week summer break, crazy stuff

No worries though. It's Le Mans on 22 and 23 of June

And GP3 this weekend.

[myurr]

True, Monza has very fast corners, nothing to do with Montreal and Monaco, which are full of slow corners.

Alonso needs to win in England and Germany because in Hungary Vettel will smash Ferrari.

Would have thought that Hungary will suit Mercedes too though - if they can get a front row lock out then they should be able to control the pace as it's very hard to overtake. Much the same as Monaco.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Prior to Silverstone, I ran into some overtaking stats, but I can't confirm the source.
Does anyone keep track on overtakes, regardless of DRS-assisted or not? Would love to compare.

1. Kimi Räikkönen 26
2. Felipe Massa 25
3. Fernando Alonso 20
4. Romain Grosjean 20
5. Mark Webber 20

[raymondu999]

True, Monza has very fast corners, nothing to do with Montreal and Monaco, which are full of slow corners.

Alonso needs to win in England and Germany because in Hungary Vettel will smash Ferrari.

Would have thought that Hungary will suit Mercedes too though - if they can get a front row lock out then they should be able to control the pace as it's very hard to overtake. Much the same as Monaco.

Easier than Monaco though. Remember Barrichello passing Schumacher in 2010?

[Chuckjr]

Again - we don't know *why* the cars perform that way, but what we *do* know is that in the tracks we've seen so far, Red Bull has the advantage at rear-limited, Ferrari at front-limited.

What about Lotus and Mercedes?
Hamilton was 3rd in China but struggled in Spain and both are front-limited tracks.

Btw, Nürburgring, the track after the british GP is it front-limited too?

Lotus seems to me more temp sensitive. It has a good balance front to rear, and it doesn't mind whether a circuit is front or rear limited. Merc is worse at rear limited, IMO.

Nurburgring... Never knew what to make of it really. Very frnt limited in some sections, very rear limited in other sections.

Thank you sincerely for your time. All replies help me better understand.

Would it be fair to say that since Lotus is a chassis which seems to do pretty well at both front and rear limited circuits, they cannot compete at the same level as Ferrari and RB, who have it seems, as the years pattern reveals, focused their attention on a better front or rear griping car? Maybe they did not intend this...

It seems from all that has been written here (which has been very insightful by all participants, thank you), that if you construct a car which is good, not exceptional, but good, at both types of circuits, you will inevitably not be able to compete on equal terms with cars that have been focused to the rear or the front?

Could it be concluded then that you are in fact better off as a manufacturer to focus more on one end of the car over the other? I know it would be optimal to have both at absolute perfection certainly (Williams 1992, Ferrari 2001-2004, RB 2011) but it seems that may not be possible in this year since no team has been mentioned or shown that they excel exceptionally well on both ends of the car--equal to the point they can match RB or Ferrari at tracks where the other dominates? The results for Lotus reveal that maybe there is merit to this consideration. Lotus is just good enough to compete for the top 3-5 most everywhere, but they will not dominate virtually anywhere, and therefore rarely win since RB will dominate at rear limited circuits and Ferrari will dominate at front limited. Maybe Lotus is thinking if they can finish top 4 each week they will win it in the end by being consistent and not badly struggling anywhere?

Sorry to be a bit off topic of the Silverstone track exactly, these were just my further considerations as I read through the string.

[strad]

Another 3 week break til Silverstone...AND later when they get their vacation I'm gonna have to listen to all the usual,,,They have to work sooo hard...they deserve it crap.

[dave34m]

Another 3 week break til Silverstone...AND later when they get their vacation I'm gonna have to listen to all the usual,,,They have to work sooo hard...they deserve it crap.

Theres 2 3 week breaks before the 4 week summer break. Its very odd this year/ I dont like it myself

[SectorOne]

I´d rather take a super short season but weekly races as best it can. 3 weeks is way to much...