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Sebastian Vettel has secured the win at the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps. He passed pole sitter Hamilton in the first lap and did not come under threat at any time. Fernando Alonso finished second while Lewis Hamilton completes the podium in third place.
I think lots of people are underestimating RedBull still.Mika1 wrote:I think S3 will be Mercedes territory especially with the chicane.
Mercedes have a bit less need of traction like red bull has due simply being able to carry more speed through the slower corners in the first place. It isn't about underestimating -the differences are very minor- but until now the pattern on every circuit has been the same: slow sections go to mercedes, higher speed corner section go to Red Bull. The differences are also so small that the drivers themselves account most of the difference. Hamilton for instance really loves slower corners. He brutally tackles those. Last year he was a monster in the slow sector of Yas Marina, crushing the opposition there.beelsebob wrote:I think lots of people are underestimating RedBull still.Mika1 wrote:I think S3 will be Mercedes territory especially with the chicane.
They have phenomenal traction out of slow corners, and while they're still not completely dominant in the high speed aero any more, S2 will still be all theirs.
I'd argue the reverse – RedBull was closest at Hungary, primarily due it being low to medium speed. Mercedes had their biggest lead at Silverstone – a primarily high speed circuit. That said, RedBull's advantage at Hungary was primarily through the higher speed section. So... I'm really unclear on exactly where the two teams have advantages just now.turbof1 wrote:Mercedes have a bit less need of traction like red bull has due simply being able to carry more speed through the slower corners in the first place. It isn't about underestimating -the differences are very minor- but until now the pattern on every circuit has been the same: slow sections go to mercedes, higher speed corner section go to Red Bull. The differences are also so small that the drivers themselves account most of the difference. Hamilton for instance really loves slower corners. He brutally tackles those. Last year he was a monster in the slow sector of Yas Marina, crushing the opposition there.beelsebob wrote:I think lots of people are underestimating RedBull still.Mika1 wrote:I think S3 will be Mercedes territory especially with the chicane.
They have phenomenal traction out of slow corners, and while they're still not completely dominant in the high speed aero any more, S2 will still be all theirs.
I personally think Mercedes will not be far off Red Bull in S2. Red Bull will probably own Pouhon, the corner after rivage and stavelot. Les Combes and Fagnes probably go to Mercedes. Everything else of the circuit seems to be more or less in the disadvantage of Red Bull: corners like blanchimont and eau rouge aren't a challenge anymore for F1 cars, not even for the backmarkers. On the straights red bull are bound to loose out.
Like I said, small differences. It isn't circuit specific anymore: they all just adapt their car to the circuit, leveling quite a lot out. Mercedes had their biggest lead at Silverstone, yes, but I think that was more due to Hamilton putting out an amazing lap. And Mercedes had to give the fastest sector to Red Bull. But like mentioned before, small differences. It depends more on the driver when speaking about Red Bull and Mercedes. Hungary was a nice example of that, with Hamilton beating Vettel with less then a tenth. Both said they could have done better.beelsebob wrote: I'd argue the reverse – RedBull was closest at Hungary, primarily due it being low to medium speed. Mercedes had their biggest lead at Silverstone – a primarily high speed circuit. That said, RedBull's advantage at Hungary was primarily through the higher speed section. So... I'm really unclear on exactly where the two teams have advantages just now.
Noble wrote:Do you guys think that we could see RB struggling in S1 and S3, but dominating S2, whilst with Merc it will be vice versa? I only ask as in previous races we see RB running a shallower angle of attack/lower downforce rear wing, and only matching the other cars around them in the speed traps who were using a much larger AoA rear wing, whilst at Hungary, we saw RB use full on high downforce/steep angle of attack rear wing, and they were pretty much at the bottom of the speed traps when running a rear wing AoA similar to those around them.
So for Spa, presuming most teams, if not all, will bring a lower downforce configuration for the rear wing AoA, RB could be in a similar position as Hungary where when teams are all running similar AoA on the rear wing, RB are usually found lingering at the bottom of the speed traps, whilst still generating good downforce.
True, So basicallly If RB loose out down the straights and slow corners to Merc and have to make it up in the high speed corners, If it evens out over the lap it surely means Red Bull have to work harder for their advantage. where as (certainly the straights) MErcedes advantage is easier to achieve and maybe more consistant ?turbof1 wrote:Mercedes have a bit less need of traction like red bull has due simply being able to carry more speed through the slower corners in the first place. It isn't about underestimating -the differences are very minor- but until now the pattern on every circuit has been the same: slow sections go to mercedes, higher speed corner section go to Red Bull. The differences are also so small that the drivers themselves account most of the difference. Hamilton for instance really loves slower corners. He brutally tackles those. Last year he was a monster in the slow sector of Yas Marina, crushing the opposition there.beelsebob wrote:I think lots of people are underestimating RedBull still.Mika1 wrote:I think S3 will be Mercedes territory especially with the chicane.
They have phenomenal traction out of slow corners, and while they're still not completely dominant in the high speed aero any more, S2 will still be all theirs.
I personally think Mercedes will not be far off Red Bull in S2. Red Bull will probably own Pouhon, the corner after rivage and stavelot. Les Combes and Fagnes probably go to Mercedes. Everything else of the circuit seems to be more or less in the disadvantage of Red Bull: corners like blanchimont and eau rouge aren't a challenge anymore for F1 cars, not even for the backmarkers. On the straights red bull are bound to loose out.
Lewis can be patchy around SPASiLo wrote:Has Vettel had many good races around here? I seem to remember Kimi and Hamilton being pretty good around here as they love the track ) although it seems so does everyone else).
Vettel finished 2nd after starting 11th last year and pulled of some good overtakes to make it happen with 1 stop less than most. He won the race in 2011. It's like you said, everyone likes this track.sennafan24 wrote:Lewis can be patchy around SPASiLo wrote:Has Vettel had many good races around here? I seem to remember Kimi and Hamilton being pretty good around here as they love the track ) although it seems so does everyone else).
Great in 2008 and 2010, not so good in qualifying last year. Kimi is usually great, but was not outstanding last year as well. On current form I would say all 3 could produce a race winning weekend.
Last year he did have the aid of Alonso, Lewis and Romain being out to climb the field, but the Red Bull was seriously off pace if I recall right. So yeah it was one of his better drives last year.Juzh wrote: Vettel finished 2nd after starting 11th last year and pulled of some good overtakes to make it happen with 1 stop less than most. He won the race in 2011. It's like you said, everyone likes this track.
yeah yeah yeah, instant excuses. In Vettel's own words: would, could, should.. makes no difference. How many times vettels engine blew while leading thus giving positions to others? What goes around, comes around. For everyone.sennafan24 wrote:Last year he did have the aid of Alonso, Lewis and Romain being out to climb the field, but the Red Bull was seriously off pace if I recall right. So yeah it was one of his better drives last year.Juzh wrote: Vettel finished 2nd after starting 11th last year and pulled of some good overtakes to make it happen with 1 stop less than most. He won the race in 2011. It's like you said, everyone likes this track.
Button was the man who really got it right last year, so yeah all the top drivers are usually of form at SPA.
How is it an excuse when it is a fact? 3 of his nearest competitors got bowled out, all of them in front of him. He would moved up some positions from 11th, but getting past Alonso, Grosjean and Hamilton, in normal circumstances, would have been difficult. He did drove a fine race, but judging by his qualy pace he will have problems with this circuit.Juzh wrote:yeah yeah yeah, instant excuses. In Vettel's own words: would, could, should.. makes no difference. How many times vettels engine blew while leading thus giving positions to others? What goes around, comes around. For everyone.sennafan24 wrote:Last year he did have the aid of Alonso, Lewis and Romain being out to climb the field, but the Red Bull was seriously off pace if I recall right. So yeah it was one of his better drives last year.Juzh wrote: Vettel finished 2nd after starting 11th last year and pulled of some good overtakes to make it happen with 1 stop less than most. He won the race in 2011. It's like you said, everyone likes this track.
Button was the man who really got it right last year, so yeah all the top drivers are usually of form at SPA.