Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Andres125sx]

They have had a year to copy Mercedes with the help of McLaren, what more do they need?

Brian

Copy an homologated engine they coudn´t open to examine?

An engine with a software wich obviously was not the same Merceces team use?

They sure have lots of data to use, but copy? No way, Mercedes crew is not stupid, they know McLaren will use Honda engines from the beginning of 2014 so they sure did everything they could to avoid they take advantage of this. Obviously they will have some advantage, but I wouldn´t say that advantage will be higher than one full seasson of on-track data and experience


PS: Thanks Hollus for the tip to correct my mistake

[XRayF1]

But Honda knew and knows where to focus on.
None of the others had that kind of advantage.
Even without 'opening' one of the Merc PUs.

I believe this to level the playing field for them.

[Unc1eM0nty]

But Honda knew and knows where to focus on.
None of the others had that kind of advantage.
Even without 'opening' one of the Merc PUs.

I believe this to level the playing field for them.

They will be aware of the various problems that each of the engine manufacturers have had and will have planned and designed around this, they're still a year behind everyone else though which ever way you slice it, I don't think that's a level playing filed at all.

Nothing can prepare them for a full race weekend, they will have to learn as they go along just like everyone else.

[Unc1eM0nty]

With regard to the homologated power unit date, I think in light of the lack of development allowed by Honda they could have extended this a little, say to the start of the 1st race weekend ?

The token rules have been relaxed to encourage development and hopefully narrow the Merc advantage, everyone wants to see closer racing, I think extra development time would be a fair compromise before it's locked down for the season.

I don't think the 5 v 4 units is viable though, that would be just too messy, Honda are late to the part and they should just tow the line on this one.

[wuzak]

Though teh rules have been relaxed for the others, they still only have 32 tokens to spend for this year.

Since Honda don't have a homologated engine how can that token system apply?

[Sasha]

What I'm hearing from Mclaren is...

First they was ok with rules for 2015 with them homo their PU by Feb 28 and the other manufactures by the first race.

But when Ferrari brought up that loop-hole in the 2015 rules at a meeting,Mclaren lawyers looked at it had decided Mclaren Honda was in trouble for 2015.That's when they jump on the Ferrari and Renualt bandwagon to unfreeze the engines in 2015.

Pretty much that loop-hole in rules puts Honda from possibly having the second best(almost to Mercedes) PU to by mid-season in 2015 having the worst PU.

There will need to be a compromise before the season's start or the first race will be a chaos with legal actions and questions of who's PU are legal!

[turbof1]

The comment from Charley will probably only have thrown more oil on the fire. I think this will be decided in a court.

The biggest issue of all is that not a single rule is written with consideration for any manufacturer coming into F1 after february 28 2014. They all start from either a power unit before february 28 2014, a MODIFIED power unit after february 28 2014 which follows the token table, and modifications which require excemption from the fia.

[J.A.W.]

Yeah, it sure seems to be yet another ludicrous 'legal fiction' rule that both hinders natural progress..
& drags the 'sport' into disrepute..

[XRayF1]

But Honda knew and knows where to focus on.
None of the others had that kind of advantage.
Even without 'opening' one of the Merc PUs.

I believe this to level the playing field for them.

They will be aware of the various problems that each of the engine manufacturers have had and will have planned and designed around this, they're still a year behind everyone else though which ever way you slice it, I don't think that's a level playing filed at all.

Nothing can prepare them for a full race weekend, they will have to learn as they go along just like everyone else.

Can't buy your last ... Honda has only been gone for 5 years, and surely still has staff around from that area.
Add to that McLaren's exact knowledge oft today's race weekends ...

[iotar__]

What I'm hearing from Mclaren is...
First they was ok with rules for 2015 with them homo their PU by Feb 28 and the other manufactures by the first race.
But when Ferrari brought up that loop-hole in the 2015 rules at a meeting,Mclaren lawyers looked at it had decided Mclaren Honda was in trouble for 2015.That's when they jump on the Ferrari and Renualt bandwagon to unfreeze the engines in 2015.

I thought that as well but how would that work? Formal change required Mercedes' consent. Honda/McL = silence. When it turned out that there's a loophole (made up, fake loophole that in fact means change of rules), they ask for a legal change but at this point no one benefits from it but them.

I'm not sure how strong this "loophole" is in F1 universe, it's obviously a broad daylight robbery but when one team loses and everyone else benefits it can happen. Maybe it's only an invitation to some compromise, it wouldn't be the first time FIA/Ecclestone changed their minds several times (2011 Silverstone, radio ban etc.).

[taperoo2k]

Well I'd take this with a pinch of salt given the site (but it does get a few things right every now and then), but it appears that McLaren and Honda could protest each and every update the other manufacturers bring invoking the technical regulation against multiple homologations of power units.
http://thejudge13.com/2015/01/07/f1-dai ... on%20Honda

Either way the FIA will most likely back down over the issue, probably through the courts. It'll be quite a farce if at every race when Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari bring new updates to power units McLaren Honda protests each and every one.

[wuzak]

Well I'd take this with a pinch of salt given the site (but it does get a few things right every now and then), but it appears that McLaren and Honda could protest each and every update the other manufacturers bring invoking the technical regulation against multiple homologations of power units.
http://thejudge13.com/2015/01/07/f1-dai ... on%20Honda

Either way the FIA will most likely back down over the issue, probably through the courts. It'll be quite a farce if at every race when Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari bring new updates to power units McLaren Honda protests each and every one.

They can't and won't bring new updates to each race.

They can run the 2014 engine until they homolgate the 2015 PU. Thereafter they have to run the 2015 PU, which is frozen.

The only rout eto continual upgrades is also open to Honda - changes for reliability, cost, etc.

[langwadt]

Well I'd take this with a pinch of salt given the site (but it does get a few things right every now and then), but it appears that McLaren and Honda could protest each and every update the other manufacturers bring invoking the technical regulation against multiple homologations of power units.
http://thejudge13.com/2015/01/07/f1-dai ... on%20Honda

Either way the FIA will most likely back down over the issue, probably through the courts. It'll be quite a farce if at every race when Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari bring new updates to power units McLaren Honda protests each and every one.

They can't and won't bring new updates to each race.

They can run the 2014 engine until they homolgate the 2015 PU. Thereafter they have to run the 2015 PU, which is frozen.

The only rout eto continual upgrades is also open to Honda - changes for reliability, cost, etc.

I thought so too, but the way appendix4.1b is worded you could argue that you are allowed to homologate modified 2014
PUs until you run out of tokens.

appendix4.2 Says you can only homologate one specification of PU but doesn't say which in period

[GoranF1]

They have had a year to copy Mercedes with the help of McLaren, what more do they need?

Brian

Copy an homologated engine they coudn´t open to examine?

why on earth would't they open it and close it back toggether whit all the technology Honda has and whit the mindset of Ron Dennis!??? LOL! This is 2015 mate,not fairy tail!

[kptaylor]

They have had a year to copy Mercedes with the help of McLaren, what more do they need?

Brian

Copy an homologated engine they coudn´t open to examine?

why on earth would't they open it and close it back toggether whit all the technology Honda has and whit the mindset of Ron Dennis!??? LOL! This is 2015 mate,not fairy tail!

You do realize teams using another manufacturer's engine have staff on hand from the engine manufacturer. The team doesn't get to open, break down or examine the engine if the manufacturer doesn't want them to do that. (For reference, when Marussia was pushing to make the US GP, Marussia/Ferrari staff were on hand to work with the PUs.)