Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[daverdfw]

So this is interesting, after all of the advances Mobil made with fuel the past 2 seasons. I wonder how this is affect the new engine.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... ay-844168/

[gruntguru]

50 thermal efficiency might just be the reasonable limit. Even Wartsilla engines aren't above that. ...

Wärtsilä already claim "over 54%" on some of their systems for things like power production, in their marketing materials, but it's moot as the demands are quite different and so are the treatments used to get to that sort of result.

Edited to correct a typo.

Yes and they say that 50% is the guaranteed.
But anyway Formula 1 always push things to the edge... so you have a good point.

These engines can be compounded? I know that can run on combine cycle..

If you are talking about low speed Marine Diesels - yes they could be turbo-compounded. The added recovery would not be as great as F1 due to low exhaust temperatures - the recip section has a very high efficiency and high expansion ratio so there is not much energy left in the exhaust. Same applies for combined cycle - nowhere near the residual exhaust energy of a GT.

[bauc]

So this is interesting, after all of the advances Mobil made with fuel the past 2 seasons. I wonder how this is affect the new engine.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... ay-844168/

Just go few pages back and check the Team Thread and you will see what we have all been talking about all past week

[godlameroso]

I found this interesting

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... sel_engine

[loner]

Final 2015 spec Honda PU max power output: 820 hp + 22% power increase = 1000 hp.

how many HP Mercedes have now coz i suspect 1k HP won't be enough to beat Mercedes in 2017

[godlameroso]

It's estimated that Mercedes has close to or slightly over 1,000 hp in a certain engine mode, usually being around the 980 hp mark during the race. They're expected to make "well over" 1,000 hp next year, I don't know if that means 1,020 or 1,060.

I don't think any manufacturer will have less than 1,000 hp next year. By the end of next year the outright power differences of the PU's won't be too great. There will still be differences in packaging, weight distribution, overall weight, and drivability, the latter dealing more with chassis integration than the former.

[loner]

It's estimated that Mercedes has close to or slightly over 1,000 hp in a certain engine mode, usually being around the 980 hp mark during the race. They're expected to make "well over" 1,000 hp next year, I don't know if that means 1,020 or 1,060.

I don't think any manufacturer will have less than 1,000 hp next year. By the end of next year the outright power differences of the PU's won't be too great. There will still be differences in packaging, weight distribution, overall weight, and drivability, the latter dealing more with chassis integration than the former.

thnx man
its puzzling me what is Honda secret which yet to be seen how could they surpass Ferrari and Mercedes 2015 PU without
pre-chamber

but the Honda unit is now the only one in pitlane not using so-called "pre-combustion chamber" or TJI technology.
"As an engine company, we are always looking for new technologies and the TJI is one of them," Honda's F1 chief Yusuke Hasegawa said.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34688.html

is it just due to bigger turbo and compressor in 2016 ?!! are they using some of their Exlink R&D but its an Atkinson based technology which for my knowledge not allowed in F1 , Honda for sure need more than just TJI if they want to be placed north of Mercedes they are extremely advanced.

[hurril]

It's estimated that Mercedes has close to or slightly over 1,000 hp in a certain engine mode, usually being around the 980 hp mark during the race. They're expected to make "well over" 1,000 hp next year, I don't know if that means 1,020 or 1,060.

I don't think any manufacturer will have less than 1,000 hp next year. By the end of next year the outright power differences of the PU's won't be too great. There will still be differences in packaging, weight distribution, overall weight, and drivability, the latter dealing more with chassis integration than the former.

thnx man
its puzzling me what is Honda secret which yet to be seen how could they surpass Ferrari and Mercedes 2015 PU without
pre-chamber

but the Honda unit is now the only one in pitlane not using so-called "pre-combustion chamber" or TJI technology.
"As an engine company, we are always looking for new technologies and the TJI is one of them," Honda's F1 chief Yusuke Hasegawa said.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34688.html

is it just due to bigger turbo and compressor in 2016 ?!! are they using some of their Exlink R&D but its an Atkinson based technology which for my knowledge not allowed in F1 , Honda for sure need more than just TJI if they want to be placed north of Mercedes they are extremely advanced.

How good are the sources that claim pre-chaimber designs for the rest of the manufacturers? I think I read somewhere that Mercedes, for instance, are not using a pre-chaimber the way that it is claimed that Ferrari does.

[loner]

It's estimated that Mercedes has close to or slightly over 1,000 hp in a certain engine mode, usually being around the 980 hp mark during the race. They're expected to make "well over" 1,000 hp next year, I don't know if that means 1,020 or 1,060.

I don't think any manufacturer will have less than 1,000 hp next year. By the end of next year the outright power differences of the PU's won't be too great. There will still be differences in packaging, weight distribution, overall weight, and drivability, the latter dealing more with chassis integration than the former.

thnx man
its puzzling me what is Honda secret which yet to be seen how could they surpass Ferrari and Mercedes 2015 PU without
pre-chamber

but the Honda unit is now the only one in pitlane not using so-called "pre-combustion chamber" or TJI technology.
"As an engine company, we are always looking for new technologies and the TJI is one of them," Honda's F1 chief Yusuke Hasegawa said.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34688.html

is it just due to bigger turbo and compressor in 2016 ?!! are they using some of their Exlink R&D but its an Atkinson based technology which for my knowledge not allowed in F1 , Honda for sure need more than just TJI if they want to be placed north of Mercedes they are extremely advanced.

How good are the sources that claim pre-chaimber designs for the rest of the manufacturers? I think I read somewhere that Mercedes, for instance, are not using a pre-chaimber the way that it is claimed that Ferrari does.

but they are using a pre-chamber technology any how
where for sure Honda does not, if you remember the official site for Mobil1 predicted that honda will use it in Suzuka
before a late decision not to opt it in 2016 was taken by Honda
well eventually i considered 2015 2016 as test bed for the big move of 2017 many people around Mclaren-Honda team talking about podiums at least in 2017.

[hurril]

thnx man
its puzzling me what is Honda secret which yet to be seen how could they surpass Ferrari and Mercedes 2015 PU without
pre-chamber

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34688.html

is it just due to bigger turbo and compressor in 2016 ?!! are they using some of their Exlink R&D but its an Atkinson based technology which for my knowledge not allowed in F1 , Honda for sure need more than just TJI if they want to be placed north of Mercedes they are extremely advanced.

How good are the sources that claim pre-chaimber designs for the rest of the manufacturers? I think I read somewhere that Mercedes, for instance, are not using a pre-chaimber the way that it is claimed that Ferrari does.

but they are using a pre-chamber technology any how
where for sure Honda does not, if you remember the official site for Mobil1 predicted that honda will use it in Suzuka
before a late decision not to opt it in 2016 was taken by Honda
well eventually i considered 2015 2016 as test bed for the big move of 2017 many people around Mclaren-Honda team talking about podiums at least in 2017.

How do we know this? (About all these pre-chambers.)

[Sasha]

I could of been given a fishy story but was told Honda doesn't use pre-chamber.To add that this year needed more tokens and time to do it.You just can't add pre-chamber and be equal or better than MB........you change the CC design then you must change almost everything else to get max benefit.So the new rules for 2017 was a gift from Heaven for Honda!!!

Expect a almost 90% new PU next year.Even the parts that they could use next year will most likely be changed to because they need to be lighter.Honda always had a problem of making their engines too heavy but as strong as a tank at first.

[ncassi22]

Slightly off topic. There are some very interesting "DI fuel injector with integrated spark plug" patents on google. =D>

[loner]

@ hurril
media

@Sasha
PU weight not in the rules?!!
rumors from some weeks ago was talking about going the layout of Mercedes in 2017 it seems Honda still can exceed the compressor size but in the V ?!!

[hurril]

@ hurril
media

See, "media" has printed a thousand different things about all the engines. My point is that the engine manufacturers have everything to gain from people thinking they're using this or that very advanced technology and much less to gain from actually revealing what they are in fact doing.

Do you remember the HCCI business?

[Sasha]

@Sasha
PU weight not in the rules?!!
rumors from some weeks ago was talking about going the layout of Mercedes in 2017 it seems Honda still can exceed the compressor size but in the V ?!! [/quote]

???? Have you ever read anywhere that stated the Honda PU was at min. weight?
We know it has a high CG and that is a factor with the bad chassis in mid-to-high speed corners.
They are always looking for better weight balance.