Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[FW17]

Cant they just top the oil tank after every stint, it is not like the oil tank has got crushed

[Roostfactor]

Cant they just top the oil tank after every stint, it is not like the oil tank has got crushed

Not that simple. We dont even know what the problem is specifically. Some possibilities:
1. Aerated oil returning to tank causing tank overflow
2. Aerated oil returning to tank not condensing to natural state fast enough so oil still aerated in supply side.
3. Scavenge pump supply lines not picking up spent oil during high g loads causing supply qty to temporarily drop.
4. Oil qty insufficient when multiple scavenge lines full of oil. This could happen when quickly shifting weight fore, aft, left, right, temporarily lowering tank quantity as multiple scavenge return lines would potentially be full.
5. Insufficient baffles in oil tank causing sloshing, possible oil starvation at high g loads.
Of course this is only a short list of potential problems.

[amho]

Does anyone knows how much is oil pressure in F1 cars to withstand high g-forces? in road cars it's about 4 bar.

[amho]

[quote="GoranF1"]The shape is the problem...Alonso said he had to brake 3 secs before breaking zone to watch oil level.

so it means that it has a horizontal-longitudinal shape?! it's not possible..

[Craigy]

For those confused about why an oil system/sump might be a problem, please remember that this liquid is likely to be both hotter than and thinner than boiling water.
That's not to say it's impossible to design something suitable since it clearly is; just have the right type of material in your head when you imagine it.

[skoop]

Gary Andersons opinion:

"09:34 It’s worrying to see Honda say that there are concerns about its oil tank based on what happened yesterday. To discover an oil tank shape is potentially incorrect suggests something is seriously wrong as normally it only shows up as a pickup problem in fast corners. To discover it on an installation lap at lower speeds suggests it’s a fundamental problem. The oil tank is vital to the engine and something most teams have a very good understanding of and very good test rigs to simulate all the forces and flows. So for McLaren and Honda to come to the first test session with a potential problem is a concern. It seems they are still missing out on the basics."

[KingHamilton01]

Gary anderson's take on this situation is a good and valid one, this sort of issue shouldn't be holding McLaren back! if they can't get something made before the end of the week then this week is a looking like a write off!

[Thunder]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 4005703680

[JesperA]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 4005703680

That sounds insane, how many engines and oil tanks have Honda produced over the years in both road cars and racing cars and they have been back in F1 for 2 years (going into their third year) but still they screwed up something so fundamental as the shape of the oil tank? No engineer picked the error up during the development process (both virtual and physical)?

[Juzh]

It's getting ridicioulus by now, I agree. Unacceptable even.

[BosF1]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 4005703680

That sounds insane, how many engines and oil tanks have Honda produced over the years in both road cars and racing cars and they have been back in F1 for 2 years (going into their third year) but still they screwed up something so fundamental as the shape of the oil tank? No engineer picked the error up during the development process (both virtual and physical)?

On the other hand, if you keep falling back on designs you are familiar with, you'll never innovate. They clearly went a new route (reported were a new shape and less weight). I agree that it makes them look amateurish that it did fail on the first lap on the first day of testing, however, I do not agree with your reasoning. I think the testing procedures are what they need to look at.

[JesperA]

On the other hand, if you keep falling back on designs you are familiar with, you'll never innovate.

Should Honda really try to innovate at their current position? They tried several concepts, noticeably the failed experiment with the turbo layout. Its time for Honda to just produce a stable engine platform with good reliability, when they have that, then they can start to innovate. I liked that they tried to innovate in year 1 and 2, they had to, but now, how long will they try to innovate and always fail? Innovating on an engine that already have very poor reliability, don't think that is smart.

Yeah, we may disagree but i think they should focus on a stable platform first, then innovate to catch the front runners.

But yeah, who knows, fingers crossed that the oil issue is their only fairly major issue and easily fixed and they actually got a stable platform underneath the current oil issue.

[PhillipM]

How can you say the engine has poor reliability when it's a different engine to the previous years

[isullivan]

How can you say the engine has poor reliability when it's a different engine to the previous years

Surely they can't create a 100% new parts engine every year.

[JesperA]

How can you say the engine has poor reliability when it's a different engine to the previous years

The "innovating on an engine that already have very poor reliability" comment was a general statement and a slight reference to the philosophy in year 1 and 2, ie if someone has an engine with poor reliability, innovating should probably not be top priority. As we now know how that turned out.