Mclaren Honda 2015

[sasa.nikolic]

While both the drivers said that this race will be tough, I thought that their race pace was not bad. In fact another 0.5 secs pace and they could have stayed ahead of Lotus and Toro Rosso.

I am now very much looking forward to Austin which should suit McLaren Honda package better than this race. Also, the Honda engine upgrade is believed to provide 0.5 sec per lap. Would be interesting to see if Alonso can make it into Q3 and score points purely on pace and not DNF for other drivers.

The only worry though is Renault which is expected to provide an upgraded engine to both Red Bull and Toro Rosso. We know that they still have 12 tokens, so there is a possibility of a big performance leap which will impact McLaren's chance of scoring more points at Austin.

Not to forget, I think Jenson did a brilliant job today driving hard and he was always there around point scoring position from lap 1.

And why is Alonso the only one to be able to get into the Q3? Button was labeled as inferior at the start of the season, and jet, he is matching Alonso quite well. I say Button has same chance to get in, if the package will deliver.

It has been said that only Alo will get new engine in Austin. Even if JB gets it too, he ll have grid penalties that Alo had this race ... JB is great driver, I hope no one doubts that.

[nokivasara]

Who would have thought that Mclaren Honda still is struggling this bad, this late in the season
Makes me respect the back marker teams more, they do amazing work with very little money to spend.

I was a huge Mclaren fan when I was younger, during the Häkkinen era, now I'm more a fan of the sport, but to see Mclaren 2s off the pace is not fun at all...This season has to feel like it's ten years long for Button and Alonso...

[drunkf1fan]

What a joke. There was not even footage shown when Alonso ignored track limits. He must've done it not so often. . . drivers ignoring track limits all season long but Alonso gets now a stupid penalty.

Actually it suggests he did it pretty often, he got a warning about cutting the corner at turn 16 which IMHO is generally after a driver has done it 2 or 3 times with some or all of them being complained about by a driver battling him. After this he almost certainly did it again after they were watching him.

Exceeding track limits are mostly consistent, fans understanding of them is not. If there is a place cars will get a consistent advantage and can push harder knowing they can go wide in a corner and gain an advantage then Charlie looks out for it after warning the drivers. Most times going wide = less grip and slower in general so there isn't really a need to punish drivers, they aren't doing it on purpose. They look out and punish the few places grip is good enough that going wide can give an advantage so drivers may do it on purpose.

Cutting the inside of a corner is more clear cut and frankly almost never happens. Massa did it a couple of times in the race, Alonso seemingly did it even more. If you do it enough to get a warning and still do it, you deserve a penalty.

People go off the track all the time, 99.999% of the time it's an accident, it won't gain an advantage and isn't done deliberately, Charlie looks out for those few situations where it's done deliberately.

[godlameroso]

They have definitely improved, they just can't sustain their speed. If they could they'd be about a .6 sec/ lap behind Mercedes. As it stands they're about 1.5-2 seconds off the pace. Ferrari improved by just over one second per lap this year, but Mercedes have not really improved to the same degree, meaning they're firmly in the realm of diminishing returns. Thus McLaren has to find 1.5 seconds to be a podium contender next year, and a little over 2 seconds to challenge for wins.

[DiogoBrand]

I was doing some simple maths here, I didn't watch the race so please correct me if there's wrong data:
The safety car was at the end of lap 16, so we had 37 laps of green flag racing. At the end of the race there was a 79 second difference between Hamilton and Button, so on race pace the McLaren is an average of 2,13 seconds off the Mercedes, and that's on a not so fast track. I'd say that if McLaren can fight for podiums next season that may go as one of the biggest comebacks on the sport's history.

[ESPImperium]

I was doing some simple maths here, I didn't watch the race so please correct me if there's wrong data:
The safety car was at the end of lap 16, so we had 37 laps of green flag racing. At the end of the race there was a 79 second difference between Hamilton and Button, so on race pace the McLaren is an average of 2,13 seconds off the Mercedes, and that's on a not so fast track. I'd say that if McLaren can fight for podiums next season that may go as one of the biggest comebacks on the sport's history.

McLaren are on average 2.5-3 seconds a lap slower on race lap pace, but generally 2 to 2.5 seconds a lap down on one lap pace, thats on a average 5km lap. That means they can be a sitting duck most of the time. Id say that McLaren will make a second in chassis design in 2016 and another 1.5-2 on PU improvements. McLaren look on paper to be competitive in 2016, but id say they will be 2 seconds closer next year. It is all dependant on their TC, MGU-H and MGU-K design and advancements for 2016, the new spec Honda is a half a second up the road, and on that side there is room for optimism, but unless they can get their TC and MGU-H manufactured and in before Homologation, or in as a token update start/middle of next year, the Honda may be stillborn next year and there may be another year of hurt to come. Id say there is a 50/50 chance they can fight for podiums, but it is all far too dependant on what Honda bring on a engine side and not what Mclaren can bring on a chassis side.

[Manoah2u]

Frankly i find it still quite clear that Honda is experiencing 2 key problems in their setup:

the ERS plant which is leaving them with a huge power defecit
and the Honda engine itself which i think is not 'allowed' to run on full top revs.
I get the feeling the actual aero package is quite good and makes up for a good portion of their lack of power,
and i'd say that button and alonso are able to extract as good as they can from the car.

I assume the issue of the ERS and the top REV issue with the engine itself is of such nature that it can't be resolved during this year because it is in a key and crucial fashion that it might mean they're developing a totally different engine to sort it out. perhaps though, this really is an experimental prototype engine while they're intending to hammer in a 'final' product next year. who knows.

either way, i admit, i've expected them to be atleast at a clear 8th grid spot by now fully on own power. they're clearly not.
too bad, but, not all is lost yet.

[Wazari]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

[Manoah2u]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

Must disagree. the packing of the Mclaren is super tight. Williams has a somewhat similar approach but is generally fatter.
Still they are able to stay relatively pretty close to the works teams. IF Mclaren had that exact same Merc powerplant and gearbox as the works team has, then Mclaren would be right up there with them and Ferrari.

[max_speed]

anyone has video of mclaren-honda running upcoming upgraded engine . i missed the first practice and could not find any video o youtube. i have also heard that upgrade is worth 0.5 seconds. if its true then big gain bu just refining combustion chamber design and combustion characteristics. any link/analysis claiming this 0.5 seconds gain

[FoxHound]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

Must disagree. the packing of the Mclaren is super tight. Williams has a somewhat similar approach but is generally fatter.
Still they are able to stay relatively pretty close to the works teams. IF Mclaren had that exact same Merc powerplant and gearbox as the works team has, then Mclaren would be right up there with them and Ferrari.

No it wouldn't.

The "supertight" packaging is directly as a result of sacrifices Honda made to the PU. Grafting another PU onto the back of the car will not result in the same rear end.

[i70q7m7ghw]

If Honda can at least get the PU to a level of performance comparable to at least Renault, then perhaps McLaren can make up some performance with the chassis. At the moment, it doesn't matter how good the chassis is, the PU is so far behind they're being overtaken on the straights like they're standing still. If next year's PU can at least allow them to defend, then maybe they will be able to fight for podiums. I think realistically, next year the target has to be points at every race, but more importantly, comparable straight line performance.

[turbof1]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

Must disagree. the packing of the Mclaren is super tight. Williams has a somewhat similar approach but is generally fatter.
Still they are able to stay relatively pretty close to the works teams. IF Mclaren had that exact same Merc powerplant and gearbox as the works team has, then Mclaren would be right up there with them and Ferrari.

No it wouldn't.

The "supertight" packaging is directly as a result of sacrifices Honda made to the PU. Grafting another PU onto the back of the car will not result in the same rear end.

Correct. It's a compromise Mercedes sought last year by having the log exhaust.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Now the cars are finishing the race, and most of the reliability issues appear to be resolved, the performance shortfalls are laid bare. It's clear to see the Honda PU is lacking grunt. I have no doubt Honda can bring a big performance improvement next season, my concern is can they make a leap big enough AND maintain reliability? Let's hope they can!

[FoxHound]

Now the cars are finishing the race, and most of the reliability issues appear to be resolved, the performance shortfalls are laid bare. It's clear to see the Honda PU is lacking grunt. I have no doubt Honda can bring a big performance improvement next season, my concern is can they make a leap big enough AND maintain reliability? Let's hope they can!

They need to solve the Turbo problem, increase the size of the compressor and let it spin freely up to it's 130k rpm which in turn will also generate more energy to be harvested.

I expect a much better showing next year as they seem to understand exactly what the problem is(always a good start), and they appear to be going about fixing it in a methodical way.