2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 May

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ChrisF1
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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I would say braking is no different the muscle groups needed for a leg press machine:

As the (diagonal) leg press involves pushing a weight along an inclined track, rather than lifting it vertically, it is possible for strength trainers to press very heavy weights, compared to the weight they might use for other exercises. For example, bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman is featured in videos wherein he leg presses 2,300 pounds (1,043 kg) for a full eight repetitions. This significantly exceeds world records for the squat, which are 485 kg (1069 lb) unequipped and 575 kg (1268 lb) with supportive equipment.

ChrisDanger
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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It's not so much pressing 168kg, it's more the endurance aspect of doing it a few hundred times over the course of a race, all while on a kind of extreme rollercoaster, maintaining incredible mental focus.

Moose
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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ChrisDanger wrote:It's not so much pressing 168kg, it's more the endurance aspect of doing it a few hundred times over the course of a race, all while on a kind of extreme rollercoaster, maintaining incredible mental focus.
As we've covered many times before - F1 drivers are extremely fit. The fact that their leg is capable of effectively supporting a fat guy jumping up and down on it for 2 hours at a time is just part of being really fit and tuned for the job they do.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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zioture wrote:Formula 1 Circuit Preview 05 - Spain Lewis Hamilton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3r1oGy ... e=youtu.be
Is there a Nico Rosberg version to this?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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BanMeToo wrote:
zioture wrote:Formula 1 Spain GP Brembo Brake Facts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJopllNRl9M
"Pedal Force 168kg." That's 370 pounds. How is it possible with one leg?
I suspect the pedals have a linkage that multiplies the force.
I think that is the only way the pedal force can be taken on the actual plunger rod not at the tip of the pedal where you put your foot. So lets say there is a 1 to 6 mechanical advantage... that's 60 pounds of force from one leg which seems more reasonable.

The g-force calculations make no sense! the whole car is decelerating at the almost the same rate and the driver is tightly strapped in. There is minute difference between the deceleration of the driver's lower body and the car if any! The seat-belts and the drivers butt take up the decelerating force.
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RA168E
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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I do remember hearing something, in regards to force needed from the driver to brake the car, that Alex Zanardi when he did his final 3 laps in an indy car after losing his legs, that he needed 165kg of pressure, and he just leaned himself against the wall with his prosthetic and pushed against a bathroom scale and found that he was still able to use that kind of force, i dont think that there is any mechanical leverage or multiplier in the pedals, due that probably being in violation of driver assist.

3jawchuck
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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The pedal itself will be a lever though, so the driver is getting some reduction in the actual force required to actuate the brakes.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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Thanks to Sauber...

There is a linkage it seems...Looks like a 3 to 1. But agian, it is just my guess that the quoted force is to the master cylinder. 300lbs can be bone breaking force if you legs deviate from even a slight angle. It is enough of a task to leg press that amount of force with two legs much less to do it on leg leg for 70 laps..ugh.. my legs feel dead just saying that.

Right click view image, or right click open in new tab.

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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ChrisDanger wrote:It's not so much pressing 168kg, it's more the endurance aspect of doing it a few hundred times over the course of a race, all while on a kind of extreme rollercoaster, maintaining incredible mental focus.
This and the fine control & touch required throughout, it must be exhausting.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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PlatinumZealot wrote:Thanks to Sauber...

There is a linkage it seems...Looks like a 3 to 1. But agian, it is just my guess that the quoted force is to the master cylinder. 300lbs can be bone breaking force if you legs deviate from even a slight angle. It is enough of a task to leg press that amount of force with two legs much less to do it on leg leg for 70 laps..ugh.. my legs feel dead just saying that.

Right click view image, or right click open in new tab.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... 012-11.jpg
Quoting my self here... OK... the ratio may not be 3 to 1... the actual mechanical advantage depends on the distance of the line of action of the force from the legs to the pivot point of the linkage to the master cylinder.

Here is another article that says Webber exerted 300kg!! of force on the brake pedal. It's the daily mail though!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formul ... -Prix.html
Webber (right) also revealed that the car’s telemetry showed he had exerted between 250 and 300 kg of force braking before the peddle snapped.
Even under heavy breaking during a race F1 drivers push the peddle with around 100kg of pressure.
http://msis.jsc.nasa.gov/sections/section04.htm

Figure 4.9.3-7 Leg Strength at Various Knee and Thigh Angles (5th Percentile Male Data)
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raymondu999
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
BanMeToo wrote:
zioture wrote:Formula 1 Spain GP Brembo Brake Facts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJopllNRl9M
"Pedal Force 168kg." That's 370 pounds. How is it possible with one leg?
I suspect the pedals have a linkage that multiplies the force.
I think that is the only way the pedal force can be taken on the actual plunger rod not at the tip of the pedal where you put your foot. So lets say there is a 1 to 6 mechanical advantage... that's 60 pounds of force from one leg which seems more reasonable.

The g-force calculations make no sense! the whole car is decelerating at the almost the same rate and the driver is tightly strapped in. There is minute difference between the deceleration of the driver's lower body and the car if any! The seat-belts and the drivers butt take up the decelerating force.
Looks like you missed the "Pedal force" part in the video.... ThereΒ΄s even a graph showing thatΒ΄s the pressure applied to the pedal so no, no linkages or multipliers, 168kg is the pressure drivers do to the pedal

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turbof1
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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Atanatizante asked me to bring some clarity into the token/reliability upgrade application in practice; he also asked me to post it in this thead, so here you go:
Atanatizante wrote:Could you please enlighten us - in the Spain race thread - regarding token rules and stuff?
My knowledge is that once you put a token on a PU system this update works only for future hence unused PU, isn't it? And therefore it doesn't work on old/older PU, right?
Maybe it's better to explain very plain and simple how these token thing works, such as begin with the first one : this year they have only 4 engines allocated for 19 races, and so forth ...
A month or so ago, I did my research on the matter of tokens and reliability upgrades. Back then it was a study to know how bad the situation was far Renault. I molded it into an article:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/19976
You are correct to state that when you put on a token on a PU component (again, there are 6 PU components), the token can only apply on a future, "not used" allocation of said PU component. Not used means effectively "not started". So you can actually put the PU component, during an official race weekend, inside the car, take it out again and effectively it will not have been used yet. However, once you started it inside the car, it's a used component, locked into its specification.

(Specifically to note here is that Renault had developed upgrades throughout the winter, with those upgrades using up tokens. However, right before Australia they had developed those same upgrades further. If they applied those developments later on, it would cost them even more tokens since before Australia, no actual tokens was used up. Hence why they rushed those development without extensive testing, since they -correctly- reasoned it would save up tokens in the future.)

Remember, you can only use 4 allocations before receiving penalties. You can of course go beyond those 4 allocations and just pick up the penalties along the way. So for instance you can still apply updates on the 6th allocation of a particular PU component.
There's however one particular thing to consider:
And therefore it doesn't work on old/older PU, right?
You shouldn't be looking at the PU as one whole, but as the 6 components it is made out of. You have 4 (regulatory) allocations of each component. You are pretty much allowed to mix different allocations of the components through eachother. For instance take a look at Ricciardo. He'll be using his 4th allocation of the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) in Spain, but he'll probably still be working with his first ES (Energy Store, the battery), a component assumed that would neither require tokens, reliability upgrades or breaks down fast.

There's a catch though. In the above we assume that future allocations with token/reliability upgrades are backwards compatible, so we assume that for instance a future Turbo Charger (TC) with upgrades, fits on the ICE. However, if the change on the TC also require a change on the ICE, the new TC might not fit on the old ICE, and/or the old TC might not fit on the new ICE.

It really depends whether an upgrade is limited solely on a particular component without changing how it works together with the the other components.

Mind that while you are regulatory allowed to mix old and new allocations of different components, you are not allowed to take parts of components to replace the same parts of the same component of a different allocation. Say a fan breaks off of your TC and you want to replace that fan by one of an older TC. Well that's simply not allowed.
#AeroFrodo

Harsha
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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The last 8 editions of the SpanishGP have produced 8 different winners also S3 chicane is added from 2007 race which is the current layout.
2007 - Felipe Massa
2008 - Kimi Raikkonen
2009 - Jenson Button
2010 - Mark Webber
2011 - Sebastian Vettel
2012 - Pastor Maldonado
2013 - Fernando Alonso
2014 - Lewis Hamilton

ChrisF1
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Re: 2015 Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya - 8-10 Ma

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Surely it's Rosbergs turn then? :P