HOW THE SPORT IS KILLED

[m3_lover]

It was the wishbone, if he didn't die from the wishbone hitting him, the impact on his skull and neck would kill him, I think it is called basal skull fracture(the neck and the spine break apart from each) and is why all major motorsport racers use the HANS device as it protects the driver from basal skull fracture.

[jgredline]

Senna died because of his steering broke off and hit the concrete wall

No he didn't, without wheel tethers his wheel bounced up between the wall and the monocoque and hit him on the head. Whilst I do not believe this to be sufficient enough to cause death (I'm probably very wrong here) but I also read that part of the snapped wishbone punctured his visor thus his skull. A bit grusome, yes which is probably why we don't hear much about it.

This would be correct. I still remember the accident well. I still am very sad about it. The formula1 world in general feels about Senna the way Nascar fans feel of Dale Earnhart

[Reca]

As DaveKillens said the Senna death is a result of an unbelievable number of concurring episodes, it’s one of these things making you wondering that somewhere it’s written he had to go that day.

Senna crash was caused by rupture of the steering column that was most likely caused by a modification made on site (Thursday night) because Ayrton wasn’t comfortable in the car. As usual with Newey cars, the cockpit was the minimum dimension required to fit the driver. Senna was used at McLaren to a totally different approach, a more comfortable driving position and a bigger steering wheel. On the FW16 Senna hands were touching the chassis while he was turning the wheel and he pointed it out several times before but only in Imola crew members decided to do something to fix the problem.
I’ve been told from an ex-f1 engineer who was there, working at Minardi that day, that they had the same problem with Alboreto car but preferred to do nothing for safety reasons.
The same engineer also saw the almost complete video from onboard (bar the last few seconds obviously) and said that arriving to Variante Bassa, near pit entrance, Senna made a couple of movements, a little zig-zag, typical movement you make when you want to verify if everything is fine, probably Senna noticed that something was unusual but decided to continue anyway, possibly another day he would have pitted, but that one wasn’t a normal day, we could talk for hours about Senna particular psychological condition that day due to several circumstances.
That anyway is about the cause of the incident.

The cause of death then was the wishbone passing in the most vulnerable part of the helmet near the frontal hole. According to the doctors who first cured him he had no other injuries, only that one on the forehead above the right eye. Nevertheless it’s impossible to establish if, without the wishbone hitting him, he would have survived the crash. If you look at it without prejudices, difficult I know, but forgetting for a moment that the driver died, the impression isn’t that of a particularly violent impact. The problem with these things is that there aren’t rules, some drivers survived in spite of worse crashes, some died for lot less.

[manchild]

My point is that problem with tragedies in Imola has nothing do with initial reasons why cars went off-track. Regardless on what caused impacts they'd be enormously smaller and deaths prevented for certain if there were old rubbers.

It is absolutely irrelevant why cars went off-track because cars are going off-track all the time and it is not going off-track that killed Ratzenberger and Senna but hitting the walls with no safety barriers.

When mentioning responsibility of FIA I had in mind that not did they licensed circuit lacking cheapest safety equipment but also they did nothing to improve safety on track for Sunday's race even though Ratzenberger was killed day before also hitting wall with no isolation.

Even on simplest local championships race director or even marshal in charge for certain post can protest before or during the event and insist on improvement of safety ASAP by adding more old tyres or hay bales but no one authorized by FIA haven’t acted according to safety regulations and common sense – from commission that licensed the circuit to FIA delegates attending the event including race director and other individuals in charge of safety.

Any of them could say “I don’t find this to be safe, I insist on adding things here or I won’t participate in this” - when I was marshalling I’ve done so several times and now I sleep peacefully which for sure isn’t the case with people in charge of safety in 1994 San Marino GP.

I guess it was too expensive to "invest" in several hundreds of old tyres so everyone was milking F1 and making millions allowing trivial reasons to cause deaths of drivers. If they’d asked fans coming to watch race to bring an old tyre with them Ratzenberger and Senna would be still alive and that is the bottom line – there was no reason not to have walls isolated but FIA simply didn’t care, simple as that and that is why they are responsible.

In an addition to this, I also partly blame teams and drivers for not protesting and boycotting the race if circuit was unsafe and it definitely was.

[manchild]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ee&pl=true

[Sawtooth-spike]

why do people make videos like that?

[manchild]

For tribute I think - sort of personal statement. People see that as great injustice and since they can't change it and can't fight the ones they find responsible than they express their emotions trough tribute videos, paintings, sites etc.

[DaveKillens]

Whether it is "tasteful" or that it may offend, is debatable. But I believe the author(s), in their own way, just wished to pay tribute to racing heroes.
By sheer coincidence, I saw a very similar video tribute to Gilles Villeneuve, and it too showed the final moments. We all have different ways of dealing with our feelings, our grief.

[vyselegend]

In an addition to this, I also partly blame teams and drivers for not protesting and boycotting the race if circuit was unsafe and it definitely was.

Then there wouldn't be a Le Mans race anymore. Talking about unsafe circuits, La Sarthe is outrageous!

[Tom]

Sorry to keep bringing it up but I noticed Reca mentioned the rupture of the steering column, however I have heard that the data recorder on board the Williams recorded no problem with steering untill the moment of impact, thus mystifying the Senna incident. I believe the Italian police launched an investigation but never found what caused him to veer off the track.

The most likely theory is that saddly after the early safety car, Senna's tyres were colder than he anticipated and when he shot off a lap after the SC had entered the pits the tyres couldn't grip the road and plunged him sideways.

[Tom]

Just seen the video and I don't believe it is bad taste (although the music is unfitting) It is very moving and a sad tribute to Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger.

I know we all prey that racing will never see another fatality and only we can stop it.

In memory of all the brave men and woman who have perished in the most competitive of sport.

[Scuderia_Russ]

I could have really done without seeing that! That sort of --- is pretty messed up! Thats no bloody memorial. Seeing the death of someone is no memorial, it's sick!

[manchild]

SR, Than watching TV news on daily basis or documentaries is also sick?

In an addition to this, I also partly blame teams and drivers for not protesting and boycotting the race if circuit was unsafe and it definitely was.

Then there wouldn't be a Le Mans race anymore. Talking about unsafe circuits, La Sarthe is outrageous!

Le Mans tragedy happened in 1955, since than many drivers and spectators died but the thing with Imola 1994 is that if there were no deaths for 12 seasons on F1 races since 1982 when Gilles and Riccardo Paletti died. CF has become standard material, safety regulations have improved and than all of the sudden after hasty change of technical regulations after 1993 season comes the tragic 1994 season and deaths caused by lack of cheapest safety equipment. Not to mention that FIA did absolutely nothing after Ratzenberger's death on Saturday and let the race take place like nothing happened. It was 12 years since last time someone has died on F1 race and they should have been worried a lot and take some action, possibly postpone the race. I really don't see any safety reason from 1993 that required dramtic changes in technical regulations while FIA thought about safety as second-rate issue.

* sorry for long post but I'was trying to make a point*

1950 Monaco GP, Monaco, Franco Rol (ITA), Broke his arm in the multiple car pileup.
1950 Swiss GP, Bremgarten, Eugene Martin (FRA), Thrown from car, seriously hurt.

1951 Swiss GP, Bern, Henri Louveau (FRA), Injured his leg.

1952 Parco di Monza, Monza, Juan Manuel Fangio (ARG), Broken neck, made full recovery.

1953 Swiss GP, Bremgarten, Fred Wacker (USA), Did not start the race after an injury in practice.

1954 German GP, Nurburgring, Onofre Marimon (ARG), Fatal accident.

1955 Turin GP, Valentino Park, Sergio Mantovani, Maserati (ITA), Broken leg, complications led to amputation.
1955 Monaco GP, Monaco, Hans Herrmann (GER), Badly injured after crashing his Mercedes, missed the race.

1957 Testing, Modena, Eugenio Castellotti (ITA), Died after a testing accident.

1958 French GP, Reims, Luigi Musso (ITA), Fatal Accident.
1958 German GP, Nurburgring, Peter Collins (GB), Fatally injured during the race.
1958 Moroccan GP, Ain-Diab, Stuart Lewis-Evans (GB), died six days later.
1958 Italian GP, Monza, Wolfgang von Trips (GER), Crashed and broke leg.

1959 Monaco GP, Monaco, Cllif Allison (GB), Facial Injuries, made a full recovery.

1960 Testing Silverstone, Harry Schell (USA), Died following a testing crash.
1960 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Mike Taylor (GB), Crashed into trees and suffered career ending injuries.
1960 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Stirling Moss (GB), Broke both legs after being thrown from his car.
1960 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Chris Bristow (GB), Fatal accident.
1960 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Alan Stacy (GB), crashed and died.
1960 Portuguese GP, Oporto, Henry Taylor (GB), Sustained arm injuries during practice.

1961 Monaco GP, Monaco, Innes Ireland (GB), Crashed in the tunnel destroying his car and breaking his leg.
1961 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Cllif Allison (GB), Sustained career-ending leg injuries after rolling.
1961 Italian GP, Monza, Wolfgang von Trips (GER), Died after his car ploughed into a spectator area.
1961 Testing, Modena, Giulio Cabianca (ITA), Fatal testing accident.
1961 Silver City Trophy, Brands Hatch, Shane Summers (USA), Killed instantly.

1962 Natal GP, Westmead, Gary Hocking (ZW), Fatal Accident during practice.
1962 Mexican GP, Mexico City, Ricardo Rodriguez (MEX), Died in Qualifying.

1963 French GP, Reims, Ludovico Scarfiotti (ITA), Missed the race after injuring his knee.

1964 Monaco GP, Monaco, Innes Ireland (GB), Crashed and worsened a knee injury from a road car accident.
1964 German GP, Nurburgring, Carel Godin de Beaufort (HOL), Killed in qualifying accident.

1966 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Jackie Stewart (GB), Broke shoulder and received cracked ribs and bruising.
1966 German GP, Nurburgring, John Taylor (GB), Crashed fatally at the wheel of his Brabham.
1966 German GP, Nurburgring, Guy Ligier (FRA), Thrown from car and suffered a broken leg.

1967 Monaco GP, Monaco, Lorenzo Bandini (ITA), Died in hospital three days after being badly burnt.
1967 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Mike Parkes (GB), Broke his legs.
1967 Testing, Silverstone, Bob Anderson (GB), Fatal accident.

1968 Race of Champions, Brands Hatch, Andrea de Adamich (ITA), Injured his neck.
1968 French GP, Rouen, Jo Schlesser (FRA), Died after suffering terrible burns early in the race.
1968 Canadian GP, Mont-Tremblant, Jacky Ickx (BEL), Broke leg after throttle stuck open.

1969 Spanish GP, Montjuich Park, Jochen Rindt (AUT), Aerofoil failure, injuries to face.
1969 German GP, Nurburgring, Gerhard Mitter (GER), Fatal accident.
1969 American GP, Watkins Glen, Graham Hill (GB), Smashed both lets, returned to F1 in ’70.

1970 Spanish GP, Jarama, Jacky Ickx (BEL), Suffered burns after an accident with Jack Oliver.
1970 Dutch GP, Zandvoort, Piers Courage (GB), Died after sustaining severe burns.
1970 Italian GP, Monza, Jochen Rindt (AUT), Brake failure at Parabolica, fatal accident.

1971 Canadian GP, Mosport Park, Henri Pescarlo (FRA), Missed the race after a practice injury.
1971 Race of Champions, Brands Hatch, Jo Siffert (SUI), Fatal accident.

1972 French GP, Clermont Ferrand, Helmut Marko (AUT), Lost vision in left eye after hit by a stone.

1973 Race of Champions, Brands Hatch, John Watson (GB), Broken leg, made a full recovery.
1973 South African GP, Kyalami, Clay Regazzoni (ARG), Rushed to hospital with burns and bruises.
1973 British GP, Silverstone, Andrea de Adamich (ITA), Broke ankle in large multi-car pileup.
1973 Dutch GP, Zandvoort, Roger Williamson (GB), Trapped in burning car, died at crash site.
1973 German GP, Nürburgring, Niki Lauda (AUT), Fractured his wrist.
1973 United States GP, Watkins Glen, Francois Cevert (FRA), Killed after hitting armco barriers.

1974 Testing, Kyalami, Peter Revson (USA), Fatal accident.
1974 German GP, Nürburgring, Howden Ganley (NZ), Foot and ankle injuries after a practice crash.
1974 German GP, Nurburgring, Mike Hailwood (GB), Sustained severe leg injuries on lap 13.
1974 United States GP, Watkins Glen, Helmut Koinigg (AUT), De-capitated in a terrible accident.

1975 Austrian GP, Osterreichring, Wilson Fittipaldi (BRA), Injured his hand.
1975 Austrian GP, Osterreichring, Mark Donohue (USA), Died from brain injuries.
1975 Spanish GP, Montjuich Park, Rolf Stommelen (GER), Crashed into faulty armco barriers, broke legs.
1975 German GP, Nurburgring, Ian Ashley (GB), Injured his ankle in a qualifying accident.

1976 German GP, Nurburgring, Niki Lauda (AUT), Terrible burns, recovered to win ‘77 WDC.

1977 South African GP, Kyalami, Tom Pryce (GB), killed instantly.
1977 Monaco GP, Monaco, Ian Scheckter (SA), Injured after a practice accident.
1977 Spanish GP, Jarama, Niki Lauda (AUT), Snapped a rib after going over a bump; relapse of ‘Ring injuries.
1977 British GP, Silverstone, David Purley (GB), Leg, pelvis, rib fractures.
1977 Canadian GP, Mosport Park, Ian Ashley (GB), Flipped backwards in his Hesketh, terrible leg and wrist injuries.
1977 Testing, Brands Hatch, Brian McGuire (AUS), Fatal testing accident.

1978 Italian GP, Monza, Ronnie Peterson (SWN), died from complications.
1978 Italian GP, Monza, Vittorio Brambilla (ITA), Head and brain injuries, concussion.
1978 Italian GP, Monza, Hans Stuck (GER), Concussion after a start accident.

1979 Argentine GP, Buenos Aires, Nelson Piquet (BRA), Received leg injuries in startline crash.

1980 Testing, Hockenheim, Patrick Depailler (FRA), Died after hitting the wall.
1980 South African GP, Kyalami, Alain Prost (FRA), Missed the race after breaking his wrist.
1980 South African GP, Kyalami, Marc Surer (SW), Two broken ankles.
1980 Austrian GP, Osterreichring, Jochen Mass (GER), Rolled and injured his neck in practice.
1980 United States GP, Long Beach, Clay Regazzoni (ARG), Spinal Injures, Paralysis, now confined to wheelchair.
1980 Canadian GP, Jean-Pierre Jabouille (FRA), Broken leg, career ending accident.

1981 San Marino GP, Imola, Miguel Angel Guerra (ARG), Broke his ankle in his first GP race start.

1982 South African GP, Kyalami, Marc Surer (SUI), Broken leg.
1982 Belgian GP, Zolder, Gilles Villeneuve (CDN), died of massive trauma.
1982 Canadian GP, Montreal, Riccardo Paletti (ITA), Died after a startline accident.
1982 German GP, Hockenheim, Didier Pironi (FRA), Shocking career ending injuries to legs.

1984 South African GP, Kyalami, Piercarlo Ghinzani (ITA), Missed the race after suffering fuel burns to his hand.
1984 Monaco GP, Monaco, Patrick Tambay (FRA), Hurt his leg and missed races, but made a full recovery.
1984 United States GP, Dallas, Martin Brundle (GB), Foot and ankle injuries.
1984 British GP, Brands Hatch, Johnny Cecotto (VEN), Severe leg injuries.

1985 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Niki Lauda (AUT), Missed two races after sustaining hand injuries.

1986 Testing, Paul Ricard, Elio de Angelis (ITA), Fatal accident after a firey accident.
1986 British GP, Brands Hatch, Jacques Laffite (FRA), Broken Leg.

1987 San Marino GP, Imola, Nelson Piquet (BRA), Concussion, Damaged Ankle.
1987 Monaco GP, Monaco, Adrian Campos (ESP), Collapsed after a Saturday crash, missed subsequent race.
1987 Japanese GP, Suzuka, Nigel Mansell (GB), Neck injuries, missed Japanese and Australian GP’s.

1988 United States GP, Detroit, Ivan Capelli (ITA), Crashed in practice and broke his ankle.
1988 Japanese GP, Suzuka, Bernd Schneider (GER), Did not start the race following a practice crash.

1989 Testing, Rio, Philippe Strieff (FRA), Paralysed below the waste after breaking his neck.
1989 San Marino GP, Imola, Gerhard Berger (AUT), Burns to hands, returned three races later.
1989 Australian GP, Adelaide, Piercarlo Ghinzani (ITA), Minor ankle injuries after crashing into Piquet.

1990 Portuguese GP, Estoril, Alex Caffi (ITA), Hurt his legs after an incident with Aguri Suzuki.
1990 Spanish GP, Jerez, Martin Donnelly (GB), Broken leg, burst arteries, damaged organs, six-week coma.

1991 Japanese GP, Suzuka, Eric Bernard (FRA), Compound leg fractures, made a return to F1 in ’94.

1992 French GP, Magny Cours, Christian Fittipaldi (BRA), damaged vertebrae, complete recovery.
1992 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Erik Comas (FRA), Bruising and concussion after Friday morning accident.

1993 Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, Alex Zanardi (ITA), Huge accident at Eau Rouge, chipped tooth.

1994 Testing, Silverstone, JJ Lehto (FIN), Broke veterbrae but made a full recovery to race for Benetton.
1994 Testing, Silverstone, Pedro Lamy (BRA), Broken neck, made a full recovery.
1994 Testing, Mugello, Jean Alesi (F), damaged vertebrae, Temporary paralysis, full recovery.
1994 San Marino GP, Imola, Rubens Barrichello (BRA), Suffered concussion and a broken nose.
1994 San Marino GP, Imola, Roland Ratzenberger (AUT), died from injures.
1994 San Marino GP, Imola, Ayrton Senna (BRA), died after an accident at Tamburello.
1994 Monaco GP, Monaco, Karl Wendlinger (AUT), Head injuries, induced into a coma by paramedics.
1994 Spanish GP, Barcelona, Andrea Montermini (ITA), Unconscious, ankle injuries.

[DaveKillens]

Manchild (and in fact, all contributors to this forum) I have a very high opinion of you. You are acute, intelligent, and your arguments I agree with almost every time. And yes, any and all driver injuries or deaths have to be taken very seriously. I even agree with you on this topic.
But just a few hours ago I witnessed an incredible race, a race that was definitely memorable, one we all shall talk about for a very long time. And in the end, no one was killed, no one was injured. Cars were destroyed, cars were scattered around the track, one even had a stake driven through it's heart to lay mortally wounded in front of the pits, seemingly intact, yet dead.
Yet with all the crazy rules changes, inconsistent leadership within the FIA, and the fact that Max definitely belongs far removed from running and ruining Formula One, we enjoyed a fantastic, memorable, injury free race.
Yes, I know it was just one race, the tragic history of motor racing cannot be ingored. Maybe it was just a fluke, maybe we are just being lucky in these present moments, but somehow, we had one heck of a great race.
We live in the present, influenced by the events of the past. But the great moments are what is happening now, and for me, it's exciting, memorable, and gives me great joy and happiness.
What a race.

[manchild]

No problem Dave when I'm writing about history I'm doing it because of the young people on this forum who haven't witnessed those events.