Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Facts Only wrote:Anything that Christian Horner says can be re-written to;
"Whaaaaa! Whaaaaaaaaaa! Its not fair because I'm not winning! Whhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
I think you are right about Horners crying. They were a semi works team, they kicked out there suplier, and now they are crying that they are not a works team anymore.
But I don't think that anybody can deny that either the engines are to complex or the engine development regulation is to strict.
A good example is Honda, those guys are not stupid, but still they can't get that engine on par with even the slowest engine out there.
Their intentions were to power Mclaren from 2016. But joined earlier because a) the engine figures were promising and b) Mclaren wanted them on board sooner.
sgth0mas wrote:So this terrible engine formula is not only killing the small teams that have poor financial support...but even RBR want to drop out because they cant use their resources to test and improve the engines.
They have never tested and improved the engines, it was Renault
Ultimately, it was the manufacturers (and supposedly Audi) who drafted / were consulted on these regs, hell didn't they originally want 4 cylinders until Ferrari complained? In any case, they got what they wanted, and presumably they reckoned they'd be able to design competitive engines, so I have little sympathy for people complaining after the fact.
Saying that, they need to find a way to allow development to close the gaps, a manufacturer not having as good an engine is in isolation, not a disaster, but preventing them from catching up is. In the hybrid era, the only coverage Renault's efforts are getting is being complained about by Red Bull, and Honda presumably aren't seeing much PR benefit from slow moving Mclarens.
Perhaps the solution is to alter the tokens so the worse your engine is, the more tokens you get, so would allow Mercedes some room for development (because presumably the manufacturers wanted the hybrid tech to help advance road car versions), but would allow Honda much more.
In any case, if you don't allow some change, how long are Honda going to hang around? Renault seem only interested in staying if they control the whole package (and therefore paying the wages of the people who might otherwise be publicly complaining about the engine...), but even then, how long will they stay if they can't st least close the gap?
sgth0mas wrote:So this terrible engine formula is not only killing the small teams that have poor financial support...but even RBR want to drop out because they cant use their resources to test and improve the engines.
They have never tested and improved the engines, it was Renault
Lol im not sure where youre going with that comment. Obviously RBR isnt testing because theyre not allowed. If they were allowed to, you better believe drivers would be testing non stop to get even the driveability improved. Those engines need to be tested in the chassis they are to go in...not old chassis.
But regardless, renault are one of RBRs resources so it doesnt matter who tests...RBR cant even use their resources to win.
This new formula is pricing small teams out while running off any non merc/ferrari team.
The fact that both Merc and Lewis are afraid for any big budget team to get the same engine that they have 2 years of experience with speaks volumes enough.
sgth0mas wrote:The fact that both Merc and Lewis are afraid for any big budget team to get the same engine that they have 2 years of experience with speaks volumes enough.
It's not so much fear as self preservation, I suspect.
If Red Bull start regularly beating the works team, there's a good chance the Board may decide against bothering to have their own team. If the works team wins, there's every chance of Red Bull publicly complaining about their engine.
Possibly damned if they do, possibly damned if they don't, essentially!
sgth0mas wrote:So this terrible engine formula is not only killing the small teams that have poor financial support...but even RBR want to drop out because they cant use their resources to test and improve the engines.
They have never tested and improved the engines, it was Renault
Lol im not sure where youre going with that comment. Obviously RBR isnt testing because theyre not allowed. If they were allowed to, you better believe drivers would be testing non stop to get even the driveability improved. Those engines need to be tested in the chassis they are to go in...not old chassis.
But regardless, renault are one of RBRs resources so it doesnt matter who tests...RBR cant even use their resources to win.
This new formula is pricing small teams out while running off any non merc/ferrari team.
RedBull did order a chassis dyno with road simulation this year for testing of an engine and drivetrain.
Andres125sx wrote:Then you´re complaining about the lack of tests, not about the engines. In that case I agree
No im complaining about both. I know youre a huge fan of electric and hybrid vehicles...so its hard to grasp, but this formula is choking the life out of the sport and there is a mountain of data to prove it.
autogyro wrote:RedBull did order a chassis dyno with road simulation this year for testing of an engine and drivetrain.
Wow, dont tell me they have decided to go back to engineering instead of relying on model aeroplane technology.
Testing is a huuuge part of the engineering process. Even the major automakes run new cars through extensive road testing regardless of easier operating conditions. RedBulls livery in testing was made to mimic that of cars undergoing road tests.
Andres125sx wrote:Then you´re complaining about the lack of tests, not about the engines. In that case I agree
No im complaining about both. I know youre a huge fan of electric and hybrid vehicles...so its hard to grasp, but this formula is choking the life out of the sport and there is a mountain of data to prove it.
I'd say the switch to pay TV is the number one problem that's cutting down the fan base myself...
Andres125sx wrote:Then you´re complaining about the lack of tests, not about the engines. In that case I agree
No im complaining about both. I know youre a huge fan of electric and hybrid vehicles...so its hard to grasp, but this formula is choking the life out of the sport and there is a mountain of data to prove it.
I'd say the switch to pay TV is the number one problem that's cutting down the fan base myself...
Yup, that's it right there. The fan base is shrinking because no one turns the TV on and discovers F1 any more. In order to become a fan of F1 you have to be willing to shell out hundreds of pounds just to try it.
