Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[hurril]

what grey bit? Either way its defintiley not a vertically mounted MGUH

Third image, right underneath the label "échappementes."

[Facts Only]

What the sort of charcoal grey square lump?

I had a good look and I'm sure thats the mechanism/hydraulics for the throttle barrells and variable length inlets (with a heat sheild over the top). Why? Well the hydraulic manifold rail is up above with numerous connections into this grey area and there appears to be a linkage going down from either side of it into the V. The Throttle barrells and wastegates I know to be hydraulically controlled (pretty standard) so I assume that the variable length inlets will be on the same system as well.

[ENGINE TUNER]

http://cdn.f1i.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... a_5_FR.jpg

Interesting nugget of info there, the MGUK is "PH1.0" or Phase 1.0. Phase 1.0 will be the very first iteration of the 2016 design and shows that Merc' have not needed to make any changes to that design since (likely) late 2015, not even after initial dyno testing or winter track testing.

Thats a pretty amazing example of "right first time", I know Merc have had their reliability issues this year but that still a sign of how good the design team are. I'd love to see what Phase the MGUH is on, at a guess probably something like PH2.5 after the issues they had in the early season.

Maybe not that they didn't "need" to make any design changes, maybe they didn't want to use tokens on a part that was already well optimized, I'm sure it will be improved(at a cost of millions) for next year with the token system gone.

[godlameroso]

Well it's pretty amazing that they can make the motors so small to be quite honest. A standard 120kW electric motor is considerably heavier and bigger than an F1 unit. It almost defies rational logic as to how they could make a small motor so powerful, so they're either using exotic materials as far as magnets or winding is concerned, or it's something completely different than us mere mortals get to see.

Same goes for the MGU-H, I remember seeing somewhere that the cost of these units are almost 8 million euros for a year.

[Facts Only]

http://cdn.f1i.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... a_5_FR.jpg

Interesting nugget of info there, the MGUK is "PH1.0" or Phase 1.0. Phase 1.0 will be the very first iteration of the 2016 design and shows that Merc' have not needed to make any changes to that design since (likely) late 2015, not even after initial dyno testing or winter track testing.

Thats a pretty amazing example of "right first time", I know Merc have had their reliability issues this year but that still a sign of how good the design team are. I'd love to see what Phase the MGUH is on, at a guess probably something like PH2.5 after the issues they had in the early season.

Maybe not that they didn't "need" to make any design changes, maybe they didn't want to use tokens on a part that was already well optimized, I'm sure it will be improved(at a cost of millions) for next year with the token system gone.

Phase aren't anything to do with Tokens, its an internal thing that starts when the first design is released for the first engine that is made (probably 6 months before the season starts). The Token system is FIA BS' that kicks in after the first homologated engine is used in an official session. Most parts (in my expereince) will already have gone through multiple design phases before an engine is even fitted into a car. The fact that a PH1.0 design (of a substantial part) has made it all the way through dyno and pre-season testing and most of the season without needing to be changed really impresses me.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Phase aren't anything to do with Tokens, its an internal thing that starts when the first design is released for the first engine that is made (probably 6 months before the season starts). The Token system is FIA BS' that kicks in after the first homologated engine is used in an official session. Most parts (in my expereince) will already have gone through multiple design phases before an engine is even fitted into a car. The fact that a PH1.0 design (of a substantial part) has made it all the way through dyno and pre-season testing and most of the season without needing to be changed really impresses me.

Does not any (performance)change to the MGUK require the use of a token, I believe so, so changing the 2015 for 2016 would have needed the use of tokens, tokens that Merc may have realized were better used somewhere else.

also, the tokens was a system made up by the PU manufacturers, not the FIA, the FIA knows nothing about making PU's, that is why they hired Gilles Simon to represent them in the PU talks.

[mrluke]

Phase aren't anything to do with Tokens, its an internal thing that starts when the first design is released for the first engine that is made (probably 6 months before the season starts). The Token system is FIA BS' that kicks in after the first homologated engine is used in an official session. Most parts (in my expereince) will already have gone through multiple design phases before an engine is even fitted into a car. The fact that a PH1.0 design (of a substantial part) has made it all the way through dyno and pre-season testing and most of the season without needing to be changed really impresses me.

Does not any (performance)change to the MGUK require the use of a token, I believe so, so changing the 2015 for 2016 would have needed the use of tokens, tokens that Merc may have realized were better used somewhere else.

also, the tokens was a system made up by the PU manufacturers, not the FIA, the FIA knows nothing about making PU's, that is why they hired Gilles Simon to represent them in the PU talks.

AFAIK the tokens are only spent when the part is fitted to an engine used for a race weekend (including practice sessions). There can be multiple designs / iterations without a part being installed and officially used.

[turbof1]

Phase aren't anything to do with Tokens, its an internal thing that starts when the first design is released for the first engine that is made (probably 6 months before the season starts). The Token system is FIA BS' that kicks in after the first homologated engine is used in an official session. Most parts (in my expereince) will already have gone through multiple design phases before an engine is even fitted into a car. The fact that a PH1.0 design (of a substantial part) has made it all the way through dyno and pre-season testing and most of the season without needing to be changed really impresses me.

Does not any (performance)change to the MGUK require the use of a token, I believe so, so changing the 2015 for 2016 would have needed the use of tokens, tokens that Merc may have realized were better used somewhere else.

also, the tokens was a system made up by the PU manufacturers, not the FIA, the FIA knows nothing about making PU's, that is why they hired Gilles Simon to represent them in the PU talks.

It could very well have been there were changes in that area from the very beginning, which would have costed tokens in any case (or not if you can sell it as a reliability upgrade). Once that decision is made, long before even testing starts, they put a label of ph1 on it and start building and testing the PU. Any changes or follow up phases can be applied without any additional cost of tokens as long as the PU has not been fired up in Melbourne. We are probably speaking about a period between the second half of the 2015 season (or even before that) and a few weeks before winter testing.

As Facts Only stated, tokens are not being used when developments are made internal and do not see the daylight at a sanctioned event. The part here stayed at phase 1 because it dyno testing and possibly winter testing gave enough ensuring data that the part is already doing its job reliably. But parts just as well could have gone through different phases at dyno/winter testing before being introduced as either a token or reliability upgrade during the season or at the beginning of the season.

The token system is in any case sanctioned by the FIA and is written in the technical regulations. I am not entirely sure how the system works to keep teams from making hidden alterations (that'll be Facts Only's shop to explain), but given nobody was busted ever since the engine freeze in 2007 came up, I think it's working well and thus also implies the FIA is very knowledgeable about the PUs.

[ENGINE TUNER]

It could very well have been there were changes in that area from the very beginning, which would have costed tokens in any case (or not if you can sell it as a reliability upgrade). Once that decision is made, long before even testing starts, they put a label of ph1 on it and start building and testing the PU. Any changes or follow up phases can be applied without any additional cost of tokens as long as the PU has not been fired up in Melbourne. We are probably speaking about a period between the second half of the 2015 season (or even before that) and a few weeks before winter testing.

I can not fully understand what you are trying to convey.

Any change(apart from reliability, cost or safety grounds) from the 2015 spec used on the last "phase" or homologated race PU introduced onto the 2016 homologated spec would require tokens. Am I incorrect?

Why would they change the part if they had no intention to introduce the improved part onto the race spec? It would be a waste of resources. Also it could have been part included in the "black box area"(I'm pretty sure the MGUK was not black boxed by that time).

[turbof1]

It could very well have been there were changes in that area from the very beginning, which would have costed tokens in any case (or not if you can sell it as a reliability upgrade). Once that decision is made, long before even testing starts, they put a label of ph1 on it and start building and testing the PU. Any changes or follow up phases can be applied without any additional cost of tokens as long as the PU has not been fired up in Melbourne. We are probably speaking about a period between the second half of the 2015 season (or even before that) and a few weeks before winter testing.

I can not fully understand what you are trying to convey.

Any change(apart from reliability, cost or safety grounds) from the 2015 spec used on the last "phase" or homologated race PU introduced onto the 2016 homologated spec would require tokens. Am I incorrect?

Why would they change the part if they had no intention to introduce the improved part onto the race spec? It would be a waste of resources. Also it could have been part included in the "black box area"(I'm pretty sure the MGUK was not black boxed by that time).

Only when you effectively introduce them on track during a sanctioned event (a race weekend). For the rest you can make changes as much as you want. Think of it as developing a product: you'll have many prototypes before the finalized product goes to the market. The same here: you can have many different phases of a particular part, but only the finalized part that is effectively used during a race weekend will cost tokens.

Say the part is changed from the 2015 spec (As Facts Only suggested, this could already have been introduced during the 2015 season, but let's keep it simple). While the 2015 season is still underway, the factory in Brixworth is also running phase 1 of a 2016 part on the dyno. If a flaw came up, the part would be changed and you would go to phase 2, phase3, etc. until the part is working as intended. During all this time, the part is not used during a sanctioned event, so no homologation is required. Then in Australia of the 2016 season, the part, which could theoritically be phase 26 by then, gets homologated if it effectively is bolted on a PU being used during that race weekend.

They are only going to introduce this part during a sanctioned event (meaning homologation) if the part reached a phase where it runs reliably and consistently. Choosing your correct moment to introduce it is also critical. At the start of the season you'll naturally bolt on most of the upgrades that work reliably and consistently. During the season however, you are going to wait until it is time to insert a new allocation of the PU component that is changed by the part.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Again
Why would they change the part if they had no intention to introduce the improved part onto the race spec? It would be a waste of resources.

or

Whey would they change the part if they had no intention of using tokens for that part?

[turbof1]

Again
Why would they change the part if they had no intention to introduce the improved part onto the race spec? It would be a waste of resources.

or

Whey would they change the part if they had no intention of using tokens for that part?

you are not getting it. The intention is certainly there to introduce improvements, but the part first has to work as intended. The first physical design of that part will be called phase 1 and is first tested on a dyno bench (or during testing days on track). If it works as intended it will go to race spec. If it does not, it stays in development and a second design of that part will be made, which than will be called phase 2. Once a phase is reached where the part works as intended, it goes to the race spec. Only at that last point you are using tokens.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Again
Why would they change the part if they had no intention to introduce the improved part onto the race spec? It would be a waste of resources.

or

Whey would they change the part if they had no intention of using tokens for that part?

you are not getting it. The intention is certainly there to introduce improvements, but the part first has to work as intended. The first physical design of that part will be called phase 1 and is first tested on a dyno bench (or during testing days on track). If it works as intended it will go to race spec. If it does not, it stays in development and a second design of that part will be made, which than will be called phase 2. Once a phase is reached where the part works as intended, it goes to the race spec. Only at that last point you are using tokens.

And that is why I added the 2nd part, If they never intended to use tokens on that part(because they already deemed it fully optimized" why would they waste resources on changing/developing that part?

[turbof1]

Again
Why would they change the part if they had no intention to introduce the improved part onto the race spec? It would be a waste of resources.

or

Whey would they change the part if they had no intention of using tokens for that part?

you are not getting it. The intention is certainly there to introduce improvements, but the part first has to work as intended. The first physical design of that part will be called phase 1 and is first tested on a dyno bench (or during testing days on track). If it works as intended it will go to race spec. If it does not, it stays in development and a second design of that part will be made, which than will be called phase 2. Once a phase is reached where the part works as intended, it goes to the race spec. Only at that last point you are using tokens.

And that is why I added the 2nd part, If they never intended to use tokens on that part(because they already deemed it fully optimized" why would they waste resources on changing/developing that part?

I think there is a misunderstanding. They always intended to use tokens on that part as they saw performance gains in it, but only once the part was cleared to be reliable and effective. In this particular case, they got it right from the very first iteration (phase 1), meaning no resources had to be spend to develop it further to remove any issues it had. If it had issues, only then they had to use resources and go to a phase2 part for further development, and so on until they got it right, at which point the part is brought to race spec and tokens are used.

I'm looking back at the previous posts as it seems the question is misconstrued or misunderstood. Fact Only's reply was that a potential "phase 2" part would not have costed extra tokens as it was internal development of the same part that ultimately would cost a set amount of tokens. For instance say you want to make change to your cilinder, which cost 3 tokens (hypothetical, I don't know how much tokens that would cost). Your first iteration of the change is phase 1. Is it good, then it is brought to race spec and you spent 3 tokens. If it is not good, it goes to phase 2 and further phases until it is good, after which you bring it to race spec and spend 3 tokens.

[hurril]

What the sort of charcoal grey square lump?

I had a good look and I'm sure thats the mechanism/hydraulics for the throttle barrells and variable length inlets (with a heat sheild over the top). Why? Well the hydraulic manifold rail is up above with numerous connections into this grey area and there appears to be a linkage going down from either side of it into the V. The Throttle barrells and wastegates I know to be hydraulically controlled (pretty standard) so I assume that the variable length inlets will be on the same system as well.

Ahh! Good point. That silvery thing protruding out of it is probably part of that mechanic.