2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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henry
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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diffuser wrote:
godlameroso wrote:The problem is that they stubbornly stayed on tires that were clearly no longer working, perhaps they didn't have any tires left over for the race. If the tires that you're using aren't working pit and try to make the next set last a little longer, should be easier with less fuel. It's better than trying to stretch tires on heavy fuel.

Don't forget the math. A pit stop takes 30 seconds.

we have 56 laps ..choice 2 stops or 3.

2 stops + 60 seconds (56/3 ~18laps)
3 Stops +90 seconds (56/4 ~14Laps)
56 -14 = 42.
Over the last 42 laps you got to make up the 30 seconds to break even. 30/42 = 0.71 seconds per lap.
It's more like 23 seconds loss. And I think you need to take the whole race number of laps since you would try to go faster in all stints including the first.

23/56 = 0.4 seconds per lap.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
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Kiril Varbanov
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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I think it's already quite clear that this is stillborn project, no matter what they say. It's time for changes, massive ones. The "incremental" approach do not work, as it seems.

basti313
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:The problem is that they stubbornly stayed on tires that were clearly no longer working, perhaps they didn't have any tires left over for the race. If the tires that you're using aren't working pit and try to make the next set last a little longer, should be easier with less fuel. It's better than trying to stretch tires on heavy fuel.
The problem on this theory is, that the Medium tire worked. Not only for the McLaren, but also for all other teams. The Soft did not work on the McLaren in regard to tire life and lap times. The Soft died much too early during Alonsos first stint, it had no sense to run it again.
Don`t russel the hamster!

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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namao wrote:The natural position of McLaren Honda is 12th and 13th in a dry non-accident race day, we know this since Melbourne. This will remain the same until the next PU upgrade (Canada).

Podiums? I don't think so. If so, would be in a crazy race at Monaco or Hungary.
The difference between the teams is not so big so they could improve this before Canada. I am, not a big step forward but enough to fight for the last points.

Strategy and tyre management must be improved ASAP!!.

basti313
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Vasconia wrote:
namao wrote:The natural position of McLaren Honda is 12th and 13th in a dry non-accident race day, we know this since Melbourne. This will remain the same until the next PU upgrade (Canada).

Podiums? I don't think so. If so, would be in a crazy race at Monaco or Hungary.
The difference between the teams is not so big so they could improve this before Canada. I am, not a big step forward but enough to fight for the last points.

Strategy and tyre management must be improved ASAP!!.
I do not think so. The McLaren was competitive on the Medium, but not on the Soft. If we compare Massa and Alonso, both had free air after the SC. Alonso needed to change his Softs 4 laps earlier and lost 6 sec in 7 laps on Massa.
On the other hand Massa and Alonso had similar pace on Mediums also in free air in their last stint.
We get more or less the same result if we look at the Torros....they were constantly faster, but even more on the Soft.

So I think McLaren has to hope for Spain where harder tires will be allocated and the Medium will be the main racing tire. Monaco or Canada with Ultrasoft to Soft will be a harder task.
Don`t russel the hamster!

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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But I have mentioned Canada because an important PU upgrade will be used. This updated PU should improve the speed. But also the handling of the car, which should improve the balance, downforce and as a consequence, reduce the tyre degradation and improve car´s performance with softer compounds.

hemichromis
hemichromis
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Vasconia wrote:But I have mentioned Canada because an important PU upgrade will be used. This updated PU should improve the speed. But also the handling of the car, which should improve the balance, downforce and as a consequence, reduce the tyre degradation and improve car´s performance with softer compounds.
That's Renault. Haven't heard anything official about a Honda upgrade

GoranF1
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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"McLaren wants to win tomorrow," he told Spain's El Pais in China. "Honda wants to win, but not necessarily tomorrow."

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/article/ ... Perez.html
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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diffuser
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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henry wrote:
It's more like 23 seconds loss. And I think you need to take the whole race number of laps since you would try to go faster in all stints including the first.

23/56 = 0.4 seconds per lap.
Right, I'm not buying that. Going faster than yourself when everything else is equal, isn't gonna be easy. The opennning laps with the close quarters and interbattling cause slower lap times than the cars are cars are capable of. Plus all the weight from the extra feul means pushing harder comes at a big price tire use wise.

In reality your edge is in not running those 3 x4 lap stints (12 laps) on tires that are at thier worst.

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henry
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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diffuser wrote:
henry wrote:
It's more like 23 seconds loss. And I think you need to take the whole race number of laps since you would try to go faster in all stints including the first.

23/56 = 0.4 seconds per lap.
Right, I'm not buying that. Going faster than yourself when everything else is equal, isn't gonna be easy. The opennning laps with the close quarters and interbattling cause slower lap times than the cars are cars are capable of. Plus all the weight from the extra feul means pushing harder comes at a big price tire use wise.

In reality your edge is in not running those 3 x4 lap stints (12 laps) on tires that are at thier worst.
I don't understand what you mean by going faster than yourself. You are trying to go faster in each 3 stop stint than you would in each 2 stop. ( 4 stints versus 3)

Agreed in the first stint there will be 2 or 3 laps which are a bit hectic and you may be prevented from using the capability of a faster tyre, or higher degradation rate. But then that's possibly going to happen in any stint, perhaps more so when you're trying to go faster on a 3 stopper when you may come across slower cars on a 2 stopper.

The objective is to use the tyres to get an optimum stint time. if you want to do that by doing more stints you have to faster lap times at every opportunity but only at the optimum speed to get the tyre to the end of the stint fastest. The difference between optimum lap times for 3 vs 2 stops is 0.4 seconds.

I disagree that you make the difference at the end of the stint when the tyres are at their worst. You make the difference by driving the first part of the stint in such a way that the tyres only reach their worst on the last lap of the stint.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

namao
namao
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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GoranF1 wrote:"McLaren wants to win tomorrow," he told Spain's El Pais in China. "Honda wants to win, but not necessarily tomorrow."

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/article/ ... Perez.html
This is the most ridiculous quote I've ever seen. Everyone wants to win tomorrow, also Honda, but for them that is impossible. Thinking like that would be a disaster.

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diffuser
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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When you're trying to choose between 2 stints or 3 stints, you're racing yourself is what I mean. Is my 2 stopper race gonna be faster than my 3 stopper?

In the first stint of either a 2 stopper or 3 stopper, everything is equal (you're trying to go faster with the same tires, etc). Plus all the cars around you are on tires with the same number of laps. The cars in front of you (for the most part) are faster than you, you have no edge. You can push harder but you're not gonna get past them easily. That's why I said "before that first stop, it's hard to be faster than yourself". So in my opinion, it's impossible to be faster than your 2 stop self in the first stint. It could happen if you have clean air but that is unlikely starting 12th.

Once you pit on that 3 stopper , hopefully you come out in clean air. You can then run full out till you catchup to the back of the pack. Which hopefully pit before you reach them, if not you should be able to get passed them easily with the fresher tires.

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bauc
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Guys, Mclaren is going in the right direction although is moving slower than expected by many. We need to take into consideration that in this season, we have such packed mildfiled where one simple mistake can cost you points finish. Just look at HAAS, they did everything right in the first 2 races (and bit lucky @ race1) and they had a bad result in China. I'm not defending Mclaren by comparing it with HAAS or others, but I just want to stress out that despite our whishes to see Mclaren at the front tomorrow, we will need to keep our heads down and wait a bit more. For me a podium finish this season and a possible 5th or 6th place in the constructors championship will give the right energy going towards the 2017, were with the new aero, engine & tire rules, Mclaren just might get itself right back at the front. [-o<

I've been watching F1 for 19 years now, patience is something I've learned to have as an asset. In the meantime I have fully enjoyed the first 3 races of the season, I think we will have a great season.
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Thunder
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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hemichromis wrote: That's Renault. Haven't heard anything official about a Honda upgrade
Actually a Honda Upgrade is mentioned in this Tweet for Canada. But it's just another Rumour. Chassis Upgrade in Spain (but that's a Staple) https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 1555250176
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

hemichromis
hemichromis
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Thunders wrote:
hemichromis wrote: That's Renault. Haven't heard anything official about a Honda upgrade
Actually a Honda Upgrade is mentioned in this Tweet for Canada. But it's just another Rumour. Chassis Upgrade in Spain (but that's a Staple)
https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 1555250176
It's something from quite a reliable source.
Thanks for sharing.