Silly Season 2016/2017

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ScottB
ScottB
4
Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 14:45

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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iotar__ wrote:
ChrisDanger wrote:Interesting article by James Allen on the silly season. Not very different to what's being said here.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/07/ ... pproaches/
He names many possible options, the more bizarre the better, missing obvious best line-ups. So Williams would prefer Button-Stroll to Bottas-Massa? That's what I meant by calling their driver management weirder and weirder. They can't be so stupid to lose Bottas, can they? That would be Lotus/Renault level of incompetence [-o< . Is Stroll bringing a lot of money, looks good on posters or what?

With Perez Renault the other weird part is that it's so sudden. Why weren't they interested in him when they were supposedly chasing Sainz? The latter looks better on posters? Didn't know about Perez before Monaco and Baku? Chaos.
If Massa being potentially for the chop isn't shocking people, why would the concept of replacing Bottas be something terrible? He's hardly dominated Felipe in a way you'd expect if he was a future champion. He's a quality driver, sure, but he doesn't seem to be showing he's going to get dramatically better than he is now.

Replacing their current lineup with an ex champion the sponsors might love, and a potentially quick youngster who would likely bring significant backing seems like a pretty sensible move to me, not to say that Bottas deserves the axe by any means, but I don't think his performances make him irreplaceable.


As for Perez, I suspect it's more down to him apparently suddenly becoming available, than Renault or anybody else not being aware of him. Why that's happened I don't know... Could Vjay's financial issues be finally hampering the team and the resources they can put into their 2017 car? Though I suppose, longer term, Williams or Renault may be slightly more likely to produce a front running car, but I don't really follow the logic, unless Sergio thinks FI are going to fall back next year.

ChrisDanger
ChrisDanger
26
Joined: 30 Mar 2011, 09:59

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Manoah2u wrote:
ChrisDanger wrote:Kvyat on the way out?
poor guy...
Seems like it's really getting to him.

Warning NSFW (language).
https://twitter.com/miezicat1/status/759698057005006848

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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ChrisDanger wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:
ChrisDanger wrote:Kvyat on the way out?
poor guy...
Seems like it's really getting to him.

Warning NSFW (language).

https://twitter.com/miezicat1/status/759698057005006848
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't survive the summer break.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Wow, with an attitude like that - understandable, but to be honest, really not fit for a F1 driver having been in a topteam - i agree,
really wonder whether he'll make that summer break.
frustration to the max.
wonder if he will smash his place to bits lol.

russian media has no 'f-ing' clue?
well buddy, lets be honest, talking like that about mother russia wont get you any more positives there,
if you ever wanted homecountry to side you, this is not the way to do it.

Image

welcome Gasly to Toro Rosso in Spa-Francorchamps.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
550
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Gasly has no supelicense remember.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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ScottB wrote:
If Massa being potentially for the chop isn't shocking people, why would the concept of replacing Bottas be something terrible? He's hardly dominated Felipe in a way you'd expect if he was a future champion. He's a quality driver, sure, but he doesn't seem to be showing he's going to get dramatically better than he is now.

Replacing their current lineup with an ex champion the sponsors might love, and a potentially quick youngster who would likely bring significant backing seems like a pretty sensible move to me, not to say that Bottas deserves the axe by any means, but I don't think his performances make him irreplaceable.


As for Perez, I suspect it's more down to him apparently suddenly becoming available, than Renault or anybody else not being aware of him. Why that's happened I don't know... Could Vjay's financial issues be finally hampering the team and the resources they can put into their 2017 car? Though I suppose, longer term, Williams or Renault may be slightly more likely to produce a front running car, but I don't really follow the logic, unless Sergio thinks FI are going to fall back next year.
I'd kick out Bottas 10 times over Massa to be honest. He got all the opportunity but imho is just meh, and im noticing a slum, when he should actually be looking for all he got to get the team in a spot where the driver makes the difference.
Massa isnt making an impression either, and imho is really on the back end of his career, so Bottas not obliterating him imho shows he's just not fit.

I think Massa's Williams 'era' is ending due to 2 things; 1) not performing like they probably hoped (even if it would be unrealistic) and 2) his experience and development qualities probably hit the point where it doesnt add anymore. thus, job done.

I dont know if Williams is as 'Bold', but 2017 is a 'fresh start' so who knows.

I think Button in Williams in 2017 is a big possibility. It almost seems like a done deal that VanDoorne will be having a Mclaren seat in 2017, though frankly, i dont see that as a positive development except for being 'cheaper'. Button brings a vast amount of experience and cunning, and as the German GP showed, still has what it takes.

As for Williams themselves, there are plenty options, really.

Massa, Bottas, Button, Perez, Nasr, Magnussen, Wehrlein, Palmer just to name a few.
If Kvyat didnt ef up recently he might have had a chance.

Button and Perez is interesting, as they both were partners in Mclaren.
Button definately will fit the team with the Martini branding and Playboy image. I would have liked to see
Button get a decent Mclaren to his hands but i dont think he'll get that chance anymore. If he gets ditched,
i just hope Williams will have a good performing vehicle next year. He's got a vast amount of experience so
he'll benefit Williams and as said before, i think atleast at this point in their careers, he's a better asset than
Massa.
As for Perez, Perez is on a high and doing great. Hes got big sponsor backing and from Carlos Slim even more.
The question for Sergio imho is rather not whether Williams would do good hiring him, but whether career-wise
Williams is a good move for Perez.
Perez is well seated in Force India now and the team loves him and he loves the team. The combo works and they
are Mercedes-powered and doing well. So is Williams a step up , a step down, or rather not a change at all? If the last
2, then why move? Especially concidering the long - term.
He's changed Ferrari for Mercedes-power, but that's not said he cant return to Ferrari and this time in the actual
Scuderia. 2017 is not open , but 2018 might be a different story. If Sergio would move to Williams in 2017, you can
rather kiss the possibility of stepping to Ferrari in 2018 reasonably goodbye.
Him staying at Force India would keep possibility to Ferrari bigger, and me personally, i say Ferrari is a step up and
williams either similar or perhaps a step down.
I wont discuss Renault potential too much though, imho that is a big step down at this point and the near future.

If Williams decides to completely overhaul their driver line up for 2017, i would imagine it being a Experienced
driver paired to a younger gun with potential, which leads to

1) Button
2) Perez (talent and money), Nasr (money and possible talent).

A move from Perez to Williams also would open up the possibility for Wehrlein heading to Force India,
and him ultimately going to Mercedes in 2019 when Rosberg is out and Hamilton to Ferrari.
Though i can also see Force India taking on Honda power in 2018, so we'll see about that.

It seems though that Williams and Perez are at this point the key figures of the silly seasons' development.

The fact that Button mentioned Mclaren talks wont begin until September says to me we wont have any
big answers until atleast the end of september.
So i'd say begin or mid october, we'll have clear answers as to:

The 2nd seat at Mclaren,
Button's F1 career post 2016,
Perez' 2017 seat,
Massa's retirement.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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PlatinumZealot wrote:Gasly has no supelicense remember.
forgot about that one. can he get one before spa?
didnt he drive a redbull during testing? doesnt that equal him having a superlicense?

who actually COULD replace Kvyat, theoretically?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Manoah2u wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:Gasly has no supelicense remember.
forgot about that one. can he get one before spa?
didnt he drive a redbull during testing? doesnt that equal him having a superlicense?

who actually COULD replace Kvyat, theoretically?
I think he has 39 out of 40 points (1st eurocup 2.0, 2nd 3.5v8 and 8th GP2) and I don't know about the possible 2 bonus points for good behaviour.

Else, Buemi has 40 points again or even JE Vergne?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Well if it's just 1 point shy i'm sure the FIA would be lenient to hand out a superlicense.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Manoah2u wrote:Well if it's just 1 point shy i'm sure the FIA would be lenient to hand out a superlicense.
He would have the point anyway if he wouldn't drive GP2 from now on (he's first in the championship with enough points to stay in the top 15).

It's more the question what RedBull wants. It's a no-brainer that he will be in the STR for 2017, it's just upto Markos judgment what's better for his development. Full season of GP2 or "cold" into F1 half season.
They could also "sell" the seat. To Sorkin (if that's his name?), the Sauber test driver or Ocon (for a discount on the engines next year). Vergne seems obvious, old RB driver and now employed by their engine manufacturer or as I mentioned Buemi. But the STR seat will not be the one you want in the second half of the season and will have no seat available for 2017.

Or, let's go crazy and give the carbon market a boost: Pastor!!!

Sonador
Sonador
3
Joined: 06 May 2016, 17:26

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Would love to see Vergne back in F1, very underrated driver.

Maybe to Renault?

I think Perez can go to Haas, to get him ready to join Ferrari in 2018?

Would love te see Button in a competetive Mclaren, Vandoorne is very good but not better than Button.
He is cheaper yes, but with a big regulationchange would you rather have a rookie or a known quantity?

Anybody noticed that Alonso is getting a bit sour/snarky against his Mclaren team (ala 2014 Ferrari) ??

flickerf1
flickerf1
7
Joined: 29 Feb 2016, 00:52

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Jolle wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:Well if it's just 1 point shy i'm sure the FIA would be lenient to hand out a superlicense.
He would have the point anyway if he wouldn't drive GP2 from now on (he's first in the championship with enough points to stay in the top 15).

It's more the question what RedBull wants. It's a no-brainer that he will be in the STR for 2017, it's just upto Markos judgment what's better for his development. Full season of GP2 or "cold" into F1 half season.
They could also "sell" the seat. To Sorkin (if that's his name?), the Sauber test driver or Ocon (for a discount on the engines next year). Vergne seems obvious, old RB driver and now employed by their engine manufacturer or as I mentioned Buemi. But the STR seat will not be the one you want in the second half of the season and will have no seat available for 2017.

Or, let's go crazy and give the carbon market a boost: Pastor!!!
Sirotkin's leading the championship on countback of 3rd place finishes.
The Wicked + The Divine.

Aesto
Aesto
1
Joined: 11 May 2012, 15:59

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Why is everyone (not just this thread, but also F1 journalists) harping on Bottas all of a sudden for supposedly not impressing against Massa any more? He finished last season with 12% more points than him, this season he's ahead by over 50%. If anything, the gap between the two is widening. It's not his fault the Williams isn't podium capable anymore.

User avatar
Vasconia
6
Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Sonador wrote: Anybody noticed that Alonso is getting a bit sour/snarky against his Mclaren team (ala 2014 Ferrari) ??
It has been like this since his comeback to the team. I hate this sort of radio comments.

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Vasconia
6
Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Aesto wrote:Why is everyone (not just this thread, but also F1 journalists) harping on Bottas all of a sudden for supposedly not impressing against Massa any more? He finished last season with 12% more points than him, this season he's ahead by over 50%. If anything, the gap between the two is widening. It's not his fault the Williams isn't podium capable anymore.
What the hell is going on Williams? they have the best PU but they are going backwards.