2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

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No grip means, that it favors even more the SS as it has more grip and will slide less than the S. With lower track temp it will not overheat aswell.

sounds logical in theory, but that's not how a Pirelli supersoft tire works. The working window is the smallest of all available tires, especially now with the high pressure. At low grip, no one is likely to hit it, which means they'll start to slide, and the tires are done in two laps, never to return again

[basti313]

No grip means, that it favors even more the SS as it has more grip and will slide less than the S. With lower track temp it will not overheat aswell.

sounds logical in theory, but that's not how a Pirelli supersoft tire works. The working window is the smallest of all available tires, especially now with the high pressure. At low grip, no one is likely to hit it, which means they'll start to slide, and the tires are done in two laps, never to return again

Do you have an example for this behavior? Whenever the track drys out most teams go for SS, which completely disagrees with your assumption. In fact Monaco is the only race I can think of, when the S was equal to the SS on a drying track.

[godlameroso]

There's evidence to support that this weekend with the weather we've seen so far none of the tires are different in a race condition, they're only different in how long they last. The soft has the highest temperature working range out of the three, but sectors 2&3 are still very hard on the tires. The medium lacks grip but is far more consistent, it may not be a horrible race tire. Yeah it'll be cloudy so track temperature will stay in the low to mid 30's, may get an extra lap or two, it's still a very long lap with a lot of high energy turns.

[Andres125sx]

Matt_b has it correct, they were simply covering the chance that the track got quicker towards the end of the Q2 session and the later runners who could have pushed them out of Q3, with the lap being so long they had to be on track and on a fast lap just in case. I do not see them using the Supersoft Tyre in the race unless either the temperature drops significantly or they get a puncture or a safety car with only a few laps to go and they are marginal on which ever tyres they are on.

Do you have inside info or just your guess?

The later runners had to improve 1.5 seconds to push Ferrari out. What you say is correct when difference is half a second, not 1.5 seconds

In the Sky tv commentary Pirelli were reported to have said that the lap delta between the soft and the supersoft was 1.6 seconds and the last thing Ferrari needed was to be knocked out in Q2 due to gambling on only a couple of tenths between being safe or out. The sensible thing was to be on track just in case, I think it was the smart thing to do in the circumstances. Riciardo survived by the narrowest of margins, Kimi was able to gain a couple of tenths in the last sector by getting the braking for the last chicane perfect and who is to say someone else couldn't do the same.

Except those teams were already using SS tire for their first attempt, so that 1.6 improvement you´re talking about was already applied, and even so they had to improve another 1.5 seconds more

And no, Ricciardo didn´t survive by the narrowest of the margins, it was Button who survived by the narrowest of the margins, so Ricciardo had some margin, and both Ferraris had even more margin, so even when I agree RBR move was a bit risky, they did it perfect and save one set of tires. But Ferrari who was ahead of RIC had more than enough margin to save a set of tires


Sorry but I´ll keep thinking Joan Villadelprat is light years ahead of you when talking about F1 strategies, so his theory is the valid one to me

[djones]

Hamilton to start from the pits.

[Andres125sx]

Matt_b has it correct, they were simply covering the chance that the track got quicker towards the end of the Q2 session and the later runners who could have pushed them out of Q3, with the lap being so long they had to be on track and on a fast lap just in case. I do not see them using the Supersoft Tyre in the race unless either the temperature drops significantly or they get a puncture or a safety car with only a few laps to go and they are marginal on which ever tyres they are on.

Do you have inside info or just your guess?

The later runners had to improve 1.5 seconds to push Ferrari out.

most of them did their first laps on used tires though, which costs you around 1 second. Button came close to beating Vettel in the end, and as McLaren, Haas, Renault and Wehrlein all had a kinda similar pace in Q1, I think it was the right decision, even in hindsight.

If they did what you think they did

To me the right decision is what RIC did, risky, but he was in Q3 and saved a set of tires. That´s best strategy no matter how you look at it, pass Q2 using as few tires as you can, and as hard as you can (S instead of SS). But if Villadelprat theory is correct, then Ferrari did a great strategy too, using only one set of tires in Q2, and then preparing another set of tires for the race

[motobaleno]

ham is going to start from the pitlane...many people address it as a decision from the team to avoid first corner dangers while AS reports the lack of a seal on the gearbox...
I am with AS... to avoid such dangers you can just start slowly. starting from the pitlane you are going to loose several seconds.

[djones]

No way was it by mistake!

There is the keep out of danger part. But this is secondary.

What it has actually allowed them to do is change the car setup.

It has the added bonus of getting a free gearbox too.

100% this was on purpose, not somebody forgot to put a seal on etc.

[basti313]

Hamilton to start from the pits.

Team fault? It sounds to me that they broke the seal too late?

Do you have inside info or just your guess?

The later runners had to improve 1.5 seconds to push Ferrari out.

most of them did their first laps on used tires though, which costs you around 1 second. Button came close to beating Vettel in the end, and as McLaren, Haas, Renault and Wehrlein all had a kinda similar pace in Q1, I think it was the right decision, even in hindsight.

If they did what you think they did

To me the right decision is what RIC did, risky, but he was in Q3 and saved a set of tires. That´s best strategy no matter how you look at it, pass Q2 using as few tires as you can, and as hard as you can (S instead of SS). But if Villadelprat theory is correct, then Ferrari did a great strategy too, using only one set of tires in Q2, and then preparing another set of tires for the race

Yes, and anyways the S1 pushing did not destroy the tires. They stopped pushing early enough.

[matt_b]

No way was it by mistake!

There is the keep out of danger part. But this is secondary.

What it has actually allowed them to do is change the car setup.

It has the added bonus of getting a free gearbox too.

100% this was on purpose, not somebody forgot to put a seal on etc.

Agreed, they're just taking full advantage of the situation they're in.

[motobaleno]

No way was it by mistake!

There is the keep out of danger part. But this is secondary.

What it has actually allowed them to do is change the car setup.

It has the added bonus of getting a free gearbox too.

100% this was on purpose, not somebody forgot to put a seal on etc.

I don't see the point of changing the setup since they have worked all the we just for the race setup: they haven't even done the qualy!
and I don't undestand the gearbox question: you cannot store gearboxes like you do for PU parts and for sure the one mounted is new...so what?

[nevill3]

Just heard Hamilton will now start from the back of the grid again, stewards made a mistake with the penalty

[basti313]

No way was it by mistake!

There is the keep out of danger part. But this is secondary.

It was clear, that Ham wanted to take the danger. Starting from the grid means 10 sec less disadvantage and 3-4 cars less to pass on track, which is another 10 sec. Starting from the pits is at least 2 places lost at the end of the race.

What it has actually allowed them to do is change the car setup.

Why should they? Closing some inlets with tape to adjust to the colder weather is allowed in parc ferme.

It has the added bonus of getting a free gearbox too.
.

No. They have a 60 place penalty, they could just take the penalty and fit a new gearbox free here and in Monza. No idea, why they did not fit the new gearbox before Q.

[motobaleno]

so this closes the question that Mercedes did it on purpose...

[search]

No grip means, that it favors even more the SS as it has more grip and will slide less than the S. With lower track temp it will not overheat aswell.

sounds logical in theory, but that's not how a Pirelli supersoft tire works. The working window is the smallest of all available tires, especially now with the high pressure. At low grip, no one is likely to hit it, which means they'll start to slide, and the tires are done in two laps, never to return again

Do you have an example for this behavior? Whenever the track drys out most teams go for SS, which completely disagrees with your assumption. In fact Monaco is the only race I can think of, when the S was equal to the SS on a drying track.

I can't find the link that names the exact working range of temperatures per tire right now (I think AMuS had it some months ago), but Pirelli themself say that the supersoft has a "small working window", while the soft one has a "wide working window"

http://hub.pirelli.com/global/en-ww/pir ... nce-reifen (article in German)