2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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But Ringo does have a point: there were some technical issues that contributed to Hamilton's loss of the 2007 title. Just like McLaren absolutely let him down.

People always look for evidence to support their predisposed conclusions, which is true. But that concept does work both ways. Hamilton is loosing the current title because he had mechanical issues, but also because he had for instance bad starts. It's not as black and white people like to make of it.

When titles are that closely fought, every detail is ultimately decisive.

(And no, that post of me is not an invitation to start another hamilton is better then rosberg rant. Let's avoid that for now )
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Jolle
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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Andres125sx wrote:
TAG wrote:
ringo wrote:Well if you want to be specific, he lost his first title to reliability issues. He experience a gearbox glitch which basically took the championship from him. I actually remembered that because someone mentioned Senna and being stuck in 5th gear was it?
He didn't lose it on mistakes. He lost it on reliability issues.
He had it in the bag quite easily without that issue ( which i believe could have been FIA induced 8) )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mMEQm46loE
This made me laugh, thanks for sharing the video and bringing back old memories. People always look for evidence to support their predisposed conclusions regardless of facts. It's human nature.
Indeed :lol:
oh yes! lets go back further, the 1986 season, where Mansell should have won, same for 1987, or 1988, where Prost had more points then Senna, 1989 when Suzuka happend, or 1990, Japan again! or.... or... 1994... etc etc etc....

they guy with the most points at the end of the season (except 1988 of course) is WC. That's how the game is played. Maybe a bit like his dad, in the horrible season 1982, where the Ferrari drivers should have won the WC, it's not always in your control. In other years with fast drivers and a championship that is basically decided by engine trouble, they are in different teams (like Raikkonen who was fast as hell in his McLaren days) and then all of a sudden there is no argument.

Hamilton his driving was excellent this year, just one real "f-up" in Baku, the rest it was more or less his car and mechanics that played a part, tricky clutch, ERS systems playing up and a blown engine. That's pure luck. But, that kind of luck is part of the championship.

But who knows, still one race to go on a track that Hamilton has a great track record on and Rosberg got to hold his nerve. Who knows.

wesley123
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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Andres125sx wrote: So it was two big driver mistakes and one glitch in last 2 GPs. In my book that´s loosing the title because of his own mistakes
That off at China wasn't even much of his mistake either. McLaren let him ran absurdly long on the intermediate tires, those tires didn't even have any rubber left under them.
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TAG
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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After all this, Rosberg better win the championship in Abu Dhabi otherwise Hamilton fans will never be able to live it down. :wink:
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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Jolle wrote:
Hamilton his driving was excellent this year, just one real "f-up" in Baku, the rest it was more or less his car and mechanics that played a part, tricky clutch, ERS systems playing up and a blown engine. That's pure luck. But, that kind of luck is part of the championship.
Baku wasn't his fault either. The team messed up the engine mapping on Friday night. This resulted in performance degradation on Saturday and in the race - parc ferme so not allowed to change it. That's why he was struggling in qualifying and the race.

Rosberg inadvertently swapped maps whilst driving which is why he could sort it quickly. Hamilton had to try to figure it out from scratch during the race.

So Baku was a team issue, not a driver one.
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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Andres125sx wrote: So it was two big driver mistakes and one glitch in last 2 GPs. In my book that´s loosing the title because of his own mistakes
In his rookie year, having held the reigning double world champion. Indeed he finished ahead of said champion in his rookie year.
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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The qualifying he screwed up on his own, could have finished second, but the mapping you're correct in. And that finish instead of being 4th could would have finished 2nd and a win next GP would have meant a win for the WDC. But like the narrative here goes, it's luck, just luck and that's why Rosberg is a worthy champion. Because he's not had a single mechanical error cost him points, just his bad driving costing him points.
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TAG
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Andres125sx wrote: So it was two big driver mistakes and one glitch in last 2 GPs. In my book that´s loosing the title because of his own mistakes
In his rookie year, having held the reigning double world champion. Indeed he finished ahead of said champion in his rookie year.
The Spaniard double world champion. Old wound, apparently never healed.
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f1316
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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So here's something I don't understand:

From the very beginning of the race we saw Verstappen finding more grip at turn 3 by going around the outside.

(Much) Later in the race we heard Ricciardo being told about this and seeming to apply that advice.

But how come other teams didn't do this? I presume they didn't because they were clearly not using that line - other than Ocon.

Now I think it's good that others didn't benefit having not figured it out for themselves, but it just seems odd.

Jolle
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Jolle wrote:
Hamilton his driving was excellent this year, just one real "f-up" in Baku, the rest it was more or less his car and mechanics that played a part, tricky clutch, ERS systems playing up and a blown engine. That's pure luck. But, that kind of luck is part of the championship.
Baku wasn't his fault either. The team messed up the engine mapping on Friday night. This resulted in performance degradation on Saturday and in the race - parc ferme so not allowed to change it. That's why he was struggling in qualifying and the race.

Rosberg inadvertently swapped maps whilst driving which is why he could sort it quickly. Hamilton had to try to figure it out from scratch during the race.

So Baku was a team issue, not a driver one.
I meant his crash in qualifying. Those points, P5 instead of a P2, even with a wrong map, maybe just those points he would need now.

ab_f1
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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turbof1 wrote:
dans79 wrote:
Andres125sx wrote: Next to the bad luck Hamilton faced, which will cost him the title, also pivotal were the bad starts for instance he had. Those will prove crucial as well.
As a Hamilton fan, I rue the fact that why he did not put more effort earlier in the championship to sort out starts. An article in Motorsport.com talks about his recent efforts.

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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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ab_f1 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
dans79 wrote:
As a Hamilton fan, I rue the fact that why he did not put more effort earlier in the championship to sort out starts. An article in Motorsport.com talks about his recent efforts.
+1

He should of put that effort in at the start of the season.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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ClarkBT11 wrote:
ab_f1 wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
As a Hamilton fan, I rue the fact that why he did not put more effort earlier in the championship to sort out starts. An article in Motorsport.com talks about his recent efforts.
+1

He should of put that effort in at the start of the season.
Was there an official statement from him or Mercedes, about the issue and how did they sorted? Was it driver error that was sorted or any hardware modification done? OR Are we taking the issue on the face value of a web site report and concluding it was all driver's fault.

ab_f1
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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GPR-A wrote:
ClarkBT11 wrote:
ab_f1 wrote:
As a Hamilton fan, I rue the fact that why he did not put more effort earlier in the championship to sort out starts. An article in Motorsport.com talks about his recent efforts.
+1

He should of put that effort in at the start of the season.
Was there an official statement from him or Mercedes, about the issue and how did they sorted? Was it driver error that was sorted or any hardware modification done? OR Are we taking the issue on the face value of a web site report and concluding it was all driver's fault.
I think Ham mentioned in one of his interviews after Suzuka that he put a number of hours in Sim to sort the issue and this article. Just putting the two together.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

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f1316 wrote:So here's something I don't understand:

From the very beginning of the race we saw Verstappen finding more grip at turn 3 by going around the outside.

(Much) Later in the race we heard Ricciardo being told about this and seeming to apply that advice.

But how come other teams didn't do this? I presume they didn't because they were clearly not using that line - other than Ocon.

Now I think it's good that others didn't benefit having not figured it out for themselves, but it just seems odd.
i was thinking the same too. I could imagine it is also due to the driver's 'faith' in themselves and 'dare'.
no driver is the same should be remembered too. Also, if you closely watch Verstappen's overtakes, you'll notice it wasn't as simple cut as 'just going another line'. It was more about reading the driver in front and then doing the opposite. Funny enough, i think it also plays more into the area of getting a 'benefit' of staying out of the spray and wake of the car in front.

Verstappen said the intermediates didn't work for him. It could have to do with that the extreme wets are good enough in getting rid of the water that he needs less effort to keep the car under control. By staying out of the wake and spray of the car in front, not only does he recieve less water, but he keeps clear view. and the last thing i personally think is the key here.

normally, the driver is behind and then 'judges' the room, which would cause that you can more or less 'predict' where your 'follower' is possibly heading. by simply driving alongside you keep the view in front alive and won't automatically follow the car in front thus giving them the advantage.

Apart from it still being phenomenal driving, and yes, Senna Toleman 84 comes to mind, I do believe this has a big effect. He 'just' drives opposite as to what is normally done, so the opponent simply doesnt expect what he is going to do and thus is in more of a 'disadvantage'.

Also, normally, driving off the line will get you in dirty track, full with tire rubber graining that can seriously ruin your race.
in this case, that was not possible due to the rain washing down the dirt, so it was rather 'safe' to run on the entire width of the track, and likewise similar grip levels, but suddenly much more room and space to choose from to overtake.

Again, dont get me wrong, i think Max did outstanding keeping the car under control (that straight save was the stuff of immortals), but I think the biggest factor here was Max maintining calm and watching the technical aspect. Which probably also was what Senna did back in Monaco.

And i'm rather sure that Verstappen trained in similar fashion as Senna; I vividly remember Senna explaining that at first, he was a disaster in the rain. So whenever it rained, he went out on track to master driving in the rain and then it was no longer a problem. Max grew up in a climate with lots of rain and his father knows what he's doing so im absolutely sure he did the same.
You could argue it as following: It could be due more to the other drivers on track simply being unskilled in the rain because they didnt' train properly. "rain today, i dont feel like going on track. i'll study data instead" whereas Max possibly trained himself till he could no longer keep his eyes open in the rain, and then ALSO studied that data.

It's funny how much Max reminds me of Ayrton. Whilst other drivers were 'taking their leisure time', going golfing, etc., Senna was studying data, practicing, and excersizing his body to the max, giving him a big edge over other drivers who smoked and ate hamburges. With the current field growing more in paydriver primadonna's and a WDC that spends his time writing rap and stainding in front of a camera and shopping for jewelry, Max is the 'oddball' that is spending all his time on F1.

that's the way i'm reading this anyway.
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while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"