Following the car

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Venom
Venom
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Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 15:20
Location: Serbia

Following the car

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What are the advantages and disadvatages from staying very close beihind the leading car. Most of the times when there is a chance for overtake most drivers stay very close and then suddenly move out.

I assume it is that by staying close behind there is less air turbulance because the car in front is breaking the air, so you have less resistance. Or, does he stay behind because the car in front can't see his rear and then moves out so the car in front doesn't have enough time to defend himself?

I hope this question isn't too lame :p

:D
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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
Location: St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

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The disadvantages of running close is that the car behind is being hit with turblenet air and vortices from the rear wing which hinders the maximum possible amount of downforce that the car can obtain that is behind. This means that the cornering speed dminishes and a loss of grip. F1 cars are really sensitive to having turbulent air compared to stock car racing like Nascar.

Sometimes a car will break right that is near a turn to see if the driver in the front will make a mistake, sometimes the lead driver will make a mistake and the car behind can captialize.
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.

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vyselegend
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:05
Location: Paris, France

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I think also another disavantage of following a car is the heat. If your car breathe the air that comes from the exausts for too long it can cause overheat. Plus when you are sucked up (don't know the english term for "aspiration"), there is less air coming in the sidepods and you risks over revving because there is less resistance, wich aggravate the overheating issue.
Last edited by vyselegend on 06 May 2006, 23:54, edited 1 time in total.

Venom
Venom
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Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 15:20
Location: Serbia

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Why would you need downforce in the straigths? You want as less turbulence as possible to gain speed. Then, when he approches the corner, the driver behind moves out where the downforce should apply and increase his grip.

I understand what you're saying, I just thought that at the long straights it's a bit different.
The trouble with the rat-race is that even if you win, you're still a rat.

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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I have wondered this often. On straights the slipstream effect is perfect because the way I understand it the front car splits the air making almost a tunnel (a kind of vacum) behind him. This air is pressumably lower pressure creating less drag and preverbally sucking the second car forward. This is however a dissadvantage in cornering because you have less downforce.

When the car parts the air, immediatly behind it is the vacum but a few metres further back all the air is dumped back down again, creating excess drag. This is a very simple and vague description and is likely flawed but I think that is the basics.

If you have ever watched a truck go past fast you may see a load of dirt and debris from the road being 'sucked*' up behind it. I think there is a similar effect with an F1 car.

*I highlighted sucked because it is a laymans term. Sucking doesn't exist, it is when pressure is created lower than the atmospheric pressure of that area and the AP forces whatever object is being 'sucked' into the area of lower pressure. This is how a spoiler works, but if you want to know about that I will write about it tomorrow or better still look here. http://www.f1technical.net/articles/10
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Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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m3_lover
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006, 07:29
Location: St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

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vyselegend wrote:I think also another disavantage of following a car is the heat. If your car breathe the air that comes from the exausts for too long it can cause overheat. Plus when you are sucked up (don't know the english term for "aspiration"), there is less air coming in the sidepods, wich aggravate the overheating issue.
Yes that is true, I remember last year in the Canadian GP, Williams told Heidfeld to pass Fisi within the next couple of laps or he will ruin his engine because of all the hot air that were going into the sidepods. Also this was on the radio box on television so all the viewers heard it and this basically started the BMW and Williams split since it became so public during the race.
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Damn! I spent so long writing my reply 3 people beat me to it!
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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Directly behind the first car is a stagnant area and if you get in there, you don't get enough airflow over the wings or through the radiators. If the car is going 200 kph in that air pocket, it may seem more like just 50 kph. Not enough downforce, and not enough air through the radiators.

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Sawtooth-spike
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 15:33
Location: Cambridge

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less downforce in the straights is a good thing, till you get to that tight 2nd gear turn, you plant your foot on the brake like you have everytime you have come to it, except this time you end up in the back of the guy your in the slip stream of, because you dont have the downforce you needed to slow down.
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wazojugs
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006, 18:53
Location: UK

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When a car is following directly behind for along time the rise in temperature on the internal working can be around 10 Deg C.

Therefore the drivers move out from behind the car infront to get some cooler air. However the team back in the pits can look at the rise in temp from the telemetry and advise the driver to move or hold back for a few corners