2017 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 25-27 August

[basti313]

Before this topic goes to ****, here are some interesting points by AMuS:

Thanks!

- Mercedes (according to Toto) took out some wing to have a better top-speed at the expense of S2. This hurt their overall lap time but they felt they could get away with it and better defend on the straights.

Yes, it looks like the cars are quite equal in aero performance, but with a little bit more efficiency on the Ferrari. Will be interesting in Monza, the efficiency will be more relevant there to get the drag down...maybe even more equal cars in Q.

- Hamilton lifted purposely a bit before Eau Rouge to yield less of an advantage to Vettel on the safety car restart. Thanks to this, he could just defend the lead.

I think they are making too much out of this. It was like Vettel hitting a wall when moving out of the slipstream...there was nearly nothing to win for him once he was out. With Vet being a bit more behind it would have been the same. Once out of the slipstream, the speed would have been quickly equal between the two cars. With Ham on the inside line, there was no way of overtaking.

- The safety car helped Hamilton according to Mercedes because there was some concern over a blister on the right-rear tire. The safety car gave them the opportunity to pit.

This is what I thought as well. The stop on lap 12 was early, more like a 2-stop. They needed to avoid the undercut. This might have been a real problem towards the end.

- Mercedes chose soft because they didn't have a fresh US like Ferrari. They also felt that their car is better on the soft and it'd be the better tire if Hamilton could somehow defend his position after the restart.

I think the honest answer is more, that they were not afraid of Vet without DRS. And after the first two laps they were not afraid of the US anymore. The bigger danger was, that Vet may have been much better on the US without Merc having the most powerful engine mode available. So it was wise to make sure Vet does not have a tire advantage in the end.

- Mercedes has more options with the ERS deployment. Hamilton was able to deploy all his energy on the straight, where as the Ferrari started derating towards the end of the straight.

If we believe in the on board telemetry shown in TV, the energy storrage was loading on the straight on full throttle in the Merc after the SC. If this is real, the MGU-H puts out a lot of juice...

[Andres125sx]

You are reading too much into Toto's reaction. The RTL post race interview of Hungary made it pretty evident that Toto wanted the positions reversed. His demeanour was probably due to the argument he had with Niki before (who was rather vocal post race that the positions should not have been reversed).

So you think an interview with the media is more sincere than his instant reaction when that happened?

Sorry but I can´t buy that

[Andres125sx]

I can give you one example of Hamilton slowing down for not being overtaken which is Canada 2013 the battle with Alonso. He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight.

Wrong- Alonso noticed it and also slowed down, thus resulting in staying behind and have the DRS.

https://youtu.be/S3kbxjBAYmM

He'snot wrong. He is 100% correct. You are wrong in saying he is wrong. Hamilton was using smart tactics and tried to let Alonso pass before the DRS line. This time Alonso was equally as smart and stopped that happening. 2 very smart drivers right there in the video you posted.

Wow never noticed that until now, thanks for sharing

[Andres125sx]

@Vanja,
TwanV,

I'll quote the exact rule:

sporting regulation 20.4.

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

As you can see, there's nothing in the rules prohibiting a driver from going for a diminishing gap. As is clearly stated, the car ahead MUST watch out if the front wing of the attacker is alongside his rear wheel. The only reason Perez wasn't penalized for his mistake was the fact that it was his team mate. When was the last time that you can remember an inter team 'incident' had been penalized ?

Never, FIA never do such things... except in 2007 with Alonso in McLaren when the team did allow Lewis to report his team mate and lose his 1-2 for a 1-5 wich was more appropiate for the team... But there was a report so they were forced. But that was a weird case, teams never allow his own drivers to report his other driver, it´s nosense... at least if there´re no hidden interests like in 2007... or 1989 with Prost and Ballestre after Suzuka accident

[George-Jung]

I can give you one example of Hamilton slowing down for not being overtaken which is Canada 2013 the battle with Alonso. He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight.

Wrong- Alonso noticed it and also slowed down, thus resulting in staying behind and have the DRS.

https://youtu.be/S3kbxjBAYmM

He'snot wrong. He is 100% correct. You are wrong in saying he is wrong. Hamilton was using smart tactics and tried to let Alonso pass before the DRS line. This time Alonso was equally as smart and stopped that happening. 2 very smart drivers right there in the video you posted.

First of all, you were right about Lando Norris. Great kid with huge potential.

2nd,

"He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight."

Maybe this is a translation error, because English is not my native language; but.. Alonso did not overtake him before DRS detection zone, so Hamilton never got the DRS at the straight.

Hamilton tried it, but Alonso was too 'smart' and noticed it, so it didn't work.

[PhilS13]

If we believe in the on board telemetry shown in TV, the energy storrage was loading on the straight on full throttle in the Merc after the SC. If this is real, the MGU-H puts out a lot of juice...

Thought the same early on but then I saw the values continually climb during the lap and reset to 0% when crossing the start finish line.

Likely TV telemetry was showing energy deployed since the lap started. Since it had a 100% cap it was likely measuring the 4MJ allowed from ES to MGUK only, ignoring direct MGUH to MGUK flow.

[dans79]

So you think an interview with the media is more sincere than his instant reaction when that happened?

Sorry but I can´t buy that

Your point of view though is based on the believe that what you saw was actually a live response. Just like with radio transmissions, the off track footage can have a substantial delay.

[Juzh]

- Mercedes has more options with the ERS deployment. Hamilton was able to deploy all his energy on the straight, where as the Ferrari started derating towards the end of the straight.

Basically what I've been saying for god knows how long, yet people continue to foolishly say ferrari is a draggy car (to the extent of 10 kph or more as soon as any kind of proper straight is involved).

[Phil]

You are reading too much into Toto's reaction. The RTL post race interview of Hungary made it pretty evident that Toto wanted the positions reversed. His demeanour was probably due to the argument he had with Niki before (who was rather vocal post race that the positions should not have been reversed).

So you think an interview with the media is more sincere than his instant reaction when that happened?

Sorry but I can´t buy that

Yes, because it wasnt an "interview" with the media. Nikki is part of the RTL broadcast, so once the race had ended he was already on the television. Nikki is open like a book and says what he thinks (often creating awkward moments on live television).

It was very evident who wanted what post race Hungary. Your footage backs this up perfectly if you have the right context.

[TAG]

- Mercedes has more options with the ERS deployment. Hamilton was able to deploy all his energy on the straight, where as the Ferrari started derating towards the end of the straight.

Basically what I've been saying for god knows how long, yet people continue to foolishly say ferrari is a draggy car (to the extent of 10 kph or more as soon as any kind of proper straight is involved).

That's not entirely what you've been saying. All cars have advantages and disadvantages, in this regard Mercedes has always had the best ERS efficiency, other cars have other advantages. It's only when people want to prove one point or another that they look at the advantage of one while discounting the disadvantage of another.

What you have been saying is that Lewis was lucky to have an extra 10kph attributing his success only to that, I can point to a number of your own posts if you'd like but what's the point of that?

[TAG]

Wrong- Alonso noticed it and also slowed down, thus resulting in staying behind and have the DRS.

https://youtu.be/S3kbxjBAYmM

He'snot wrong. He is 100% correct. You are wrong in saying he is wrong. Hamilton was using smart tactics and tried to let Alonso pass before the DRS line. This time Alonso was equally as smart and stopped that happening. 2 very smart drivers right there in the video you posted.

First of all, you were right about Lando Norris. Great kid with huge potential.

2nd,

"He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight."

Maybe this is a translation error, because English is not my native language; but.. Alonso did not overtake him before DRS detection zone, so Hamilton never got the DRS at the straight.

Hamilton tried it, but Alonso was too 'smart' and noticed it, so it didn't work.

Apples and oranges, what was done here was done to force Vettel's hand in coming out of the slipstream early making it a two stage tow that made it so that because of it being broken assured it could not deliver enough momentum for Vettel. It worked. I had nothing to do with DRS so not relevant in this discussion.

[Dazed1]

On the first pit stop series, did Raikkonen slow some to try to block Lewis before he pitted? I thought Lewis caught up to him rather quickly. (And then ate him alive!)

To answer my own question, Lewis gained 2.5 seconds on lap 14 alone so I am guessing Raikkonen was in the backing up mode.

Ferrari would never ask Kimi to do that, there is no number one or number two driver at Ferrari, because some of the fanboys here said so.

[notsofast]

TwanV,

Perez is changing direction from the left side of the track to the right. It could be argued he was doing it to take the racing line going into Eau Rogue, but there's still plenty of distance before the corner to do that. No, he was squeezing Ocon into the wall to intimidate him. And intimidate he did. We know this because Ocon clearly tried to back off thinking "this crazy maniac is going to slam me into the wall". And that's exactly what would've happened. And all this time Perez knew precisely where Ocon was.

That's not how I would interpret a change of direction. To me, a change of direction is when the steering wheel is not in its normal position. It seems to me that Perez had already finished his "first move" and had already returned to going in a straight line before Ocon drove into the wedge. The fact that this straight line was aimed at the wall seems irrelevant to me. The direction in which Perez was heading should have been clear to Ocon, and Perez was not changing it.

[the EDGE]

TwanV,

Perez is changing direction from the left side of the track to the right. It could be argued he was doing it to take the racing line going into Eau Rogue, but there's still plenty of distance before the corner to do that. No, he was squeezing Ocon into the wall to intimidate him. And intimidate he did. We know this because Ocon clearly tried to back off thinking "this crazy maniac is going to slam me into the wall". And that's exactly what would've happened. And all this time Perez knew precisely where Ocon was.

That's not how I would interpret a change of direction. To me, a change of direction is when the steering wheel is not in its normal position. It seems to me that Perez had already finished his "first move" and had already returned to going in a straight line before Ocon drove into the wedge. The fact that this straight line was aimed at the wall seems irrelevant to me. The direction in which Perez was heading should have been clear to Ocon, and Perez was not changing it.

The whole 'who's fault it was' argument is irrelevant

The fact is team mates cannot take each other out 3 races in a row, and that means you can't drive your team mate into the wall even if he should be there in the first place

Perez is an idiot, no top team will ever sign him now

[George-Jung]

Apples and oranges...

Agree- but that wasn't the point.