2017 Singapore Grand Prix - 1st lap crash discussion

[NathanOlder]

@Nathan,

F1F reporting the same. The team expected him to retire, but he nurtured the car home.

I watched some onboard footage during the race and I couldn't pick anything up, that is no measure of course.
Besides that, I don't recall hearing a radio warning Ricciardo of the gearbox problem. I can't find any radio transcripts either.

As an aside, if a car has loss of gearbox pressure on lap 15 at Singapore, it generally ends up toast. It's the second highest gear change to meterage after monaco, but actually surpasses Monaco by way of being 60kms longer race distance. Guessing the cogs were made of adamantium.

Very good point. So its all BS and red bull didnt have race pace ?

[Quantum]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions on that, but it follows Red Bull blame norms.

[Edax]

One thing i havent noticed anyone mention yet was how did Alonso get caught in this. On that slow motion replay posted a page or 2 back, he got down to turn 1, surely he could see Max had damage ? Yet he squeezed Verstappen hard at the apex and them after that Kimi came back like a shark for a second bite! If Alonso ran around the outside of T1 he may well have survived.

Why was he so close to Max!

VES had damage but the car was still under control. VES and ALO would made the corner, together without a problem. RAI simply collected them both (obviously not his fault as both his steering and braking were gone).

No way would they have made the coner without contact. The moment before kimi hits, alonso and max were about to hit. Look at the lines of max and alonso. Max was no way not going to hit alonso. Watch the slow motion video very carefully and pause it just before kimi hit max

That's what I did. From the onboard both wheels seem to react, none is locked up, gear shift is normal. He comes in at a shallow angle due to his tight line in, but he has about 30k less that for instance ALO and is in line with the apex, don't see why he wouldn't make the corner.

[NathanOlder]

He would make the corner if Alonso wasn't there, but Alonso was there


Here is the moment as kimi arrives. Look at Max and Fernando, max is heading straight at the Mclaren. Max had a damaged car and Fernando was giving Max a good squeeze

http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_2017-09- ... YevsF3.png

[PlatinumZealot]

We need a picture form above and not a zoomed in sequence where you can't judge distances. The best picture I saw is:
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/crash ... ta-954637/
Ok, Vettel closed the door, but at some point, Verstappen should give up and brake.

Oh but Max did brake in order to avoid a collision! The problem was that Kimi's right rear tyre was behind Max's left front wheel. There was nothing Kimi could do. It was all a chain reaction to Vettel's wild lunge across the track. Look at how far across the track Vettel ended up here. He has no business over there. And look how much space Max gave him by pulling back.

[Squid]

I think the main issue here is that Vettel had a bad start. The rest is a chain reaction of that. Max had a better start and ended close to Vettel, too close, so the swerve to left wasnt justified by Vettel. To make matters worse, by that point, Kimi who had the best start, had already sandwiched Max.

He didn't have that bad of a start. Verstappen's start was only slightly better, as he was gaining on Vettel very slowly. Vettel was already closing the door by the time Verstappen got close to him. Biggest problem was Raikkonen's monster start which put him in a very unfortunate place. In the end, Raikkonen made it 3-wide with very little wiggle room. Not to blame him in any way, but it's why I feel this was a complete racing incident caused by the two Ferraris being unable to keep tabs on each other. Verstappen was pretty much a passenger in this whole mess.

It reminds me a lot of China 2016, where Kvyat lunged down Vettel's inside, causing him to crash into Raikkonen, who Vettel couldn't have known was there since he was in his blind spot.

[bonjon1979]

It's okay mate, Lewis had track awareness for all three of them today. Time to put this craziness to bed.

Lewis drove a fantastic race today and would have challenged for victory even without the carnage.

We will see Sebastian true colors over the next 6 races as he chases him down.

It could still be the most thrilling season of all time!

It will. Ferrari will pull out all the stops. A big number 2 will be slapped onto the side of Kimi's car. He will do all that it takes to shumi chop any car with petronas written on the side. Vettel can still win this if Lewis suffers a few dnf at the hands of #2 ferrari.

That's never been Kimi's style. He'll race, he'll try to win but he won't chop anyone

[Jolle]

isn't there some kind of saying like "you can't win the championship in one corner, but you can loose it"? Apparently Vettel introduces straights into it. Just stupid to take so much risk while being in the best position of a WC in years.

If for the rest of the 6 GP's Mercedes and Hamilton do what they have been doing this year and the seasons before, it's a done deal.

[iotar__]

- After replays I changed my mind . Vettel moved sideways but contact was earlier and not really because of that (that's what I saw/thought live).

- It didn't help (lack of space) but Verstappen panicked when Raikkonen got even and after going center changed his mind and moved left, really causing the collision.

- I don't understand how they cleared Verstappen then, he wasn't sandwiched at the time of the left side move. It looked as if it was too late when Vettel got there anyway so this excuse doesn't work.

[foxmulder_ms]

- After replays I changed my mind . Vettel moved sideways but contact was earlier and not really because of that (that's what I saw/thought live).

- It didn't help (lack of space) but Verstappen panicked when Raikkonen got even and after going center changed his mind and moved left, really causing the collision.

- I don't understand how they cleared Verstappen then, he wasn't sandwiched at the time of the left side move. It looked as if it was too late when Vettel got there anyway so this excuse doesn't work.

Nope... well, technically you are right if you are watching it in slow mo. However, what you are describing happened like in 0.3 second. Vestappen was trying to avoid Vettel's crazy sweep.

[George-Jung]

It is really mind boggling how people are twisting and turning just to blame Verstappen.

The kid did nothing wrong, just admit it for once!

Vettel made the error of judgement which cost the Scuderia a lot and not to mention it is horrible for the WDC.

To make things even worse is that Hamilton had a good start and ended op 1st.

Last but not least, what a shame for Alonso!

[GrandAxe]

Very good point. So its all BS and red bull didnt have race pace ?

Likely BS aimed at their sponsors and social networks.

[iotar__]

- After replays I changed my mind . Vettel moved sideways but contact was earlier and not really because of that (that's what I saw/thought live).

- It didn't help (lack of space) but Verstappen panicked when Raikkonen got even and after going center changed his mind and moved left, really causing the collision.

- I don't understand how they cleared Verstappen then, he wasn't sandwiched at the time of the left side move. It looked as if it was too late when Vettel got there anyway so this excuse doesn't work.

Nope... well, technically you are right if you are watching it in slow mo. However, what you are describing happened like in 0.3 second. Vestappen was trying to avoid Vettel's crazy sweep.

No he was not! Vettel's move didn't matter because: A. when Verstappen changed his mind (right then left move) it cost him time/space and B. he did it because of Raikkonen not Vettel,

- Watch either in front/sideways camera or MV's onboard replay, very clear: he moved left when he saw Raikkonen late next to him (nothing to do with Vettel), lost time (right/left), panicked and overreacted = moved too quickly and couldn't control it to keep it straight.

- it should have been a penalty for six sense

[GrandAxe]

Vettel came across far too aggressively. He shouldn't have done that on a wet track, especially when it was non-title contenders, not Lewis he was taking such a huge risk to block. It all seems so foolish, he came across the track as if Beelzebub was hot on his heels for one of his lil round hairy's.

Vettel has form with aggressive behaviour, from jackknifing into Jenson to side swiping Webber to ramming Lewis. Someone please have a word with the lad before he starts packing heat to scare other drivers off the road.

[foxmulder_ms]

- After replays I changed my mind . Vettel moved sideways but contact was earlier and not really because of that (that's what I saw/thought live).

- It didn't help (lack of space) but Verstappen panicked when Raikkonen got even and after going center changed his mind and moved left, really causing the collision.

- I don't understand how they cleared Verstappen then, he wasn't sandwiched at the time of the left side move. It looked as if it was too late when Vettel got there anyway so this excuse doesn't work.

Nope... well, technically you are right if you are watching it in slow mo. However, what you are describing happened like in 0.3 second. Vestappen was trying to avoid Vettel's crazy sweep.

No he was not! Vettel's move didn't matter because: A. when Verstappen changed his mind (right then left move) it cost him time/space and B. he did it because of Raikkonen not Vettel,

- Watch either in front/sideways camera or MV's onboard replay, very clear: he moved left when he saw Raikkonen late next to him (nothing to do with Vettel), lost time (right/left), panicked and overreacted = moved too quickly and couldn't control it to keep it straight.

- it should have been a penalty for six sense

You are absolutely right about on board being very very clear.

I will simply tell you this: Even if Vestappen drove perfectly straight without any input on the wheel there would be an accident. You are right his 1st slight left was to cover Raikkonen but everything after that him trying to avoid a crash. He has NO place to go. Both Kimi and Vettel drove towards him, especially Vettel very aggressively and it is Vettel's fault he did not see or more likely ignored Kimi's great start.

where can he go at his moment??