Canadian GP: Montoya vs Rosberg

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Who was at fault?

Poll ended at 02 Jul 2006, 11:50

Rosberg
13
45%
Montoya
16
55%
 
Total votes: 29

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Steven
Owner
Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

Canadian GP: Montoya vs Rosberg

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I noticed Montoya was really angry at Rosberg after the race as both men touched in that first chicane. Rosberg thereby abandoned the race while Montoya had to come in for a new nose.

Just curious who you think was to blame for the incident?
I'm behind Montoya though, I think he was well positioned aside of Rosberg.

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Tom
0
Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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It was baically Nico's fault, I think he accepted that although he claimed he didn't realise Montoya was there until it was too late. he is a begginer though still and his early season performance can lead you to forget that.

The more I saw that replay though the more I thought than Juan pablo could have done more to avoid contace, even cutting the corner himself. Ultimetly his final crash was entirely his own fault though.

I think Sato also hit champions wall near the end and struggled round the track with bent suspension until I assume his car suddenly shot right which ultimetly ended his race just before the hairpin.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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TV direction is terrible and is getting worse. Replays are a little confusing and in this case hard to see. I do not know why: there are as much cameras as cars.

I know well, even if I have not been to a race in ages that the spectacle of an F1 passing in front of you is overwhelming: the deafening noise, the speed that makes really impossible to take a picture unless you are a pro and have a really fast camera, the way the car hangs to curves defying physics. But once you are watching it from home, out of the circuit, seeing cars passing does not seem to be very interesting... :)

Slow motion replays are few. Helicopter (or blimp, they are in America, guys) chases of the cars have disappeared. Incidents are confusing: I would show every incident from the point of view of pilot, if available, preferably both pilots, like in this case. Look how replays are being managed on World Cup.

To answer Tomba: Rosberg tried to take the curve knowing he was not going able to do it. Rosberg is young and new and he may have the "what the heck attitude" you expect from a novice, but JPM is throwing away a career taking too many risks. Now I am talking about careers, what a shame... but this is life. I agree with Tom, as usual in the last couple of weeks.

God, in his infinite wisdom, knows I would be happy if Monty succeeded once in a while. Of course, God gave me Alonso to compensate. But the last three years have been what seems to me like a long vacation of a pilot used to give the best and that now maybe is mollified by the money. Where is his indian savvy? (the "indigenous malice", we call it).
Ciro

zac510
zac510
22
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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Tomba, no option for 'Racing Incident' ?

From the live camera angle it looked like Rosberg's fault, but from the replay 'above' camera angle Rosberg clearly braked later - Montoya's front wheel was only half way up the length of Rosberg's car so he should have given more room. Rosberg would have made the corner fine if Montoya had given him more room. But Rosberg could have taken to the grass like Schumacher.

I still think racing incident, both equally at fault.

dumrick
dumrick
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 13:36
Location: Portugal

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I thought it was clearly Montoya's fault. In the right-hander he dived inside and Rosberg made room for him. But, anyhow he was behind Rosberg and the line to the left-hander belonged to the german.
What I saw was that JPM carrying so much speed he wasn't able to stay in the line, the car understeered and caught Rosberg...

Bottom line: Rosberg made room for JPM in the first corner, JPM was unable to make room for Rosberg in the second one and pushed him off...

Curious thing: JPM tried it after almost getting it wrong on a similar move on Schumacher, but that time he managed to get in front and win the line for the second corner, which made Schumacher run on the grass to make room... too civilized, didn't look like Schumi... anyway, Schumi must have understood that if he fought, there would be great chances of ending up in the wall...

zac510
zac510
22
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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I found this on another forum:
Image
Last edited by zac510 on 26 Jun 2006, 13:28, edited 2 times in total.

dumrick
dumrick
0
Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 13:36
Location: Portugal

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zac510 wrote:I found this on another forum:

Image
Good sequence. Leaves me wondering about if JPM really understeered, but makes obvious that it is his fault (always behind Rosberg, didn't left him any room...)

dumrick
dumrick
0
Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 13:36
Location: Portugal

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Double post, sorry... :(
Last edited by dumrick on 26 Jun 2006, 14:38, edited 1 time in total.

manchild
manchild
12
Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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I say Montoya is guilty. He didn't brake when he should have and if Nico's car wasn't there he wouldn't make good trough that corner anyway. He was too optimistic got in the corner too fast and than braked his car into Nico's. Identical error as Hill's from 1995.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-PdJfxs3L8

RH1300S
RH1300S
1
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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I put this down to Monty.....but TBH it was a racing accident. Monty had momentum and went into a gap, if he pulled it off it would have been a stunner. Rosberg was probably unwise not to yield.............but he was RACING :twisted:

Not a 50/50 - put it down to Monty.......but I'm glad he tried :wink:

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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I respectfully disagree with Manchild and RH1300S. This is what I see on the nice sequence of photos (thanks, zac510:

Photo 1: Nico is well ahead, his rear tyre is a little ahead of Montoya's front tyre, but has not "cleared" Montoya.

Photo 2: Montoya has braked later than Rosberg as Manchild explains and have regained position alongside. Montoya's right wheel is on the red base asphalt, exactly on border of grass. Do not see how he could have cut more. Nico is barely two meters from border of pavement, not the position you take if a car is alongside you... he should have continued braking into the curve, but this would meant he had lost position.

Photo 3: Rosberg had closed on the border. Now is maybe 1.5 m (clearly less than in previous photo) away from the border. Now accident is unavoidable (if this is not the exact moment of touch). Montoya's right wheel is again (almost) against the grass.

I think THIS proves Manchild and RH1300S are wrong: Montoya braked hard enough to take the curve exactly against its internal radius, barely touching the grass. You cannot touch the grass on the inside of a curve without you causing the accident. Besides, Nico was able to take the curve with a greater radius, had he wished, as both cars were essentially at the same speed. Allegations of blindness do not seem to hold water, either.

I hope next time Rosberg tries to carry momentum on the ouside of the curve, like Senna used to do. :)
Ciro

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Hehe.. no problem Ciro, we understand reasons for your nepotism :lol:

I don't think JPM braked later but started breaking again when it was too late. I dare to sat that he lost stability of the car during his battle with Nico, went into corner badly and crashed because he couldn't slow down enough.

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Middle picture on the right, If Monty had turned the other way he would have lost a fair bit of time and probably a position but could have recovered the car without damage to either.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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mep
29
Joined: 11 Oct 2003, 15:48
Location: Germany

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I think it's mostly Rosbergs fault( 70:30).
He said that he didn't saw monty and so didn't know that
he was there.
But if hears the sound of an other engine and is looking in the mirror and does not see the car which was trying to overtake than
he should know that the car is next to him.
So he can't take the corner the way he wants to.
Schumache ris a much better driver because he acted
better in the same situation and finished second.

Montoya is a crasy driver and Rosberg was to slow from the first lap on
he should let monty go.

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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picking a few holes here mep, I doubt Roseburg could hear Monty's engine over his own and the rest of the pack echoing off the concrete which in montreal creates a tunnel effect and if he could the difference between Montoya 10m back and Montoya beside him wouldn't have been that clear. Also I doubt Montoya is a nut because he is an F1 driver and nuts only ever make merchanics, and Roseburg was going as fast as he could. Fianlly beware of saying that MS is a better driver or half the forum will rise up against you and consume you whole :wink:
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.