Question about Indy '05

[captainmorgan]

IIRC, one of the claimed reasons why Michelin runners weren't allowed to race for no points with a chicane at Turn 13 was that the Bridgestones weren't designed for a new chicane, highlighting potential safety risks.

I'm still curious about that. Is that a likely story? Would an impromptu chicane somehow cause tires to become unsafe?

[Scuderia_Russ]

I don't remember that being amongst the reasons given.

[m3_lover]

Did they ever found out what caused the tires to fail?

[flynfrog]

Did they ever found out what caused the tires to fail?

they werent built to take the outside shoulder load from the banking after indy was resurfaced there was alot more grip than michelen expected

[Scuderia_Russ]

Did they ever found out what caused the tires to fail?

Yep, Michelin didn't do their homework.

[manchild]

Yep, Michelin didn't do their homework.

viewtopic.php?t=1367

[flynfrog]

Yep, Michelin didn't do their homework.

viewtopic.php?t=1367

alls i see is a 9 page rant mostly be you on how ferrair bridgstone should bend over backward eventhough they did nothing wrong

I was at that race and since then i refuse to by michelen tires even though they are buying my ticket this year and paid for my ticket last year

[Tom]

Thats a bit harsh, sure Michelin made a mistake but they happen all the time. I once put water in the petrol tank of a car (it was in a petrol can so it looked/smelt like petrol) an MOT guy left my mums bonnet half shut before she went 70mph down the motorway, mistakes happen, if you blame someone and go off in a huff you are no better than them, if you say hang on a minute, you did this wrong, I'm not happy but I'll let you off if you put it right and they admit it and put it right then nothing is lost so why go off and abandon them.

A tiny miscalculation was made, sure it had dire consiquences but it was a single oversight and it was fixed in the end, so why are you still stropping? Have you never made a mistake? Done something which you regret and looked silly?

Sorry but thats the best lesson I've learnt in my life, don't insult people on your way up, they might do the same on your way down!
While its all good for you then be kind and you'll be treated the same when its not, hopefully.

My dream of a perfect world seems to be going west.

[flynfrog]

Thats a bit harsh, sure Michelin made a mistake but they happen all the time. I once put water in the petrol tank of a car (it was in a petrol can so it looked/smelt like petrol) an MOT guy left my mums bonnet half shut before she went 70mph down the motorway, mistakes happen, if you blame someone and go off in a huff you are no better than them, if you say hang on a minute, you did this wrong, I'm not happy but I'll let you off if you put it right and they admit it and put it right then nothing is lost so why go off and abandon them.

A tiny miscalculation was made, sure it had dire consiquences but it was a single oversight and it was fixed in the end, so why are you still stropping? Have you never made a mistake? Done something which you regret and looked silly?

Sorry but thats the best lesson I've learnt in my life, don't insult people on your way up, they might do the same on your way down!
While its all good for you then be kind and you'll be treated the same when its not, hopefully.

My dream of a perfect world seems to be going west.

my view on the subject is bridgestone makes damn good tires so does michelin but guess what one im going to choose

the michelin cars were given the option of running the pit road every lap they would have lost but at least there would have been a race

I do respect them for paying for the tickets but it hurt the fan base pretty bad here and will more than likely end the usgp after this year


now i will let manchild procced to tell me it was the red teams fault that michelin cant build a proper tire

[Tom]

wow, a bit hostile aren't we.

Michelin wouldn't have run every lap through the pits because its absurd, you couldn't do it. Likewise Bridgestone wouldn't have built a chicane because its not the right thing to do. I think that they took the right path and if they didn't, well, what are you going to do about it now?

[flynfrog]

wow, a bit hostile aren't we.

Michelin wouldn't have run every lap through the pits because its absurd, you couldn't do it. Likewise Bridgestone wouldn't have built a chicane because its not the right thing to do. I think that they took the right path and if they didn't, well, what are you going to do about it now?

leaving for indy in about 5 minutes sorry if ive been coming off as hostile its more just me playing around i have slept in like 3 days from excitment 5 min of work left them im outa here

why couldnt they drive through the pits they would have scored points at least

why should bridgstone build a chicane they brought the correct tire

I think the race was run how it should ahve been if yoru car was not fit to race dont take it on the track no bending of the rules ect

on the other hand i paid over $ 300 in gas money to watch an extened frearri practice

but theres the bell see you on the flip side its looking to be a good race

im betting an aguri in the wall on the front strech

[manchild]

Safety is everything. Michelin and 7 teams pulled back beacuase they feared for the safety of the drivers, marshalls and spectators. FIA whose main responsibility is safety didn't care about safety at all. BTW, there was a FIA trial that found Michelin teams not guilty so I see no reason to put blame on Michelin at all.

I understand that people had lost money and got dissapointed like the rest of TV viewers but I also know that many of of US motorsport fans enjoy crashes and flames. Perhaps that's desired in NASCAR but it is not desired in F1.

I'm sure that Mosley tried to use frustration of F1 fans in US just to make sure that his little deal with Bridgestone from 2007 as single tyre supplier goes smoothly. He should have looked at writings among the spectators (F1A sucks or blame Mosley). I'm sure F1 fans in US have seen him trough and that majority of them knows who's to blame.

US GP 2005, Ferrari fans

[RH1300S]

A very interesting interview with Michelin man Pierre Dupasquier (former). The full version is at Autosport - if you want more, best to register.............

A very frank discussion about the events up to an including the final debacle. In which he very much accepts the blame for what happened. Finishing thus.........

"On Sunday morning, I decide I had better talk to Bernie Ecclestone, to see how he evaluates the situation, since we didn't hear anything from the FIA. They didn't answer our letter.

I went to Pasquale Lattuneddu (Ecclestone's right-hand man) and said, 'where is Bernie?' He said, 'follow me'. He drove me to a room close to the track where I found everyone there: all our partners, Minardi and Jordan were there, as well as Tony George. Only Ferrari were missing. And when I went into the room, Bernie said, 'we are in ---' and I said, 'yes, sir. We have to do something'.

Flavio Briatore talked and said, 'Michelin screwed up with the tyres, fine, but that has happened, we cannot undo the past. Now what do we do about the race?'

Somebody turned to Tony George and asked, 'can you make a chicane?' and he said 'yes, of course'. He said he already asked his guys and they were ready to do it.

Somebody said 'but we need Charlie'. So Bernie sent somebody to bring Charlie in. Charlie came in and listened for 30 seconds and then said, 'I'm sorry, but I have nothing to do here - no compromise is possible'. And he left the room.

Somebody said, 'we have to talk to (FIA president) Max Mosley'. So Bernie rang Max on the phone and explained the situation to him. We understand that Max was in total disagreement.

Bernie passed the phone to Briatore, who talked to Max, saying, 'Max, look, don't think about anything - we are in a situation where we have to do something; the race has to happen'. And all we could hear was 'no, no, no' and 'no' on the other side.

Then he passed the phone to Ron Dennis who said, 'Max, we disagree on many things, but today is different. We have to agree on a solution'. We could understand that Max was adamant.

Tony George got up and left - actually, maybe naively, we thought he was going to just tell his men, go ahead and build a chicane!"

Other stuff here.........won't post it all

"Some time afterwards, I was in the United States for the car show in Detroit. The guy who picked me at the airport brought me a report from a newspaper about a NASCAR race in Charlotte where, if my memory is good, they had six crashes in testing and then eight crashes in the race. All of them due to tyre failures. And NASCAR is NASCAR - standard tyres made once for the whole year, the cars don't change, the tracks are the same.

But one thing was different this time: the Charlotte track was resurfaced and treated with a diamond cut by the same method that was done to the track in Indianapolis.

I am convinced today that the diamond resurface of the track was the determinant factor of the Michelin tyre failure in Indianapolis. Of course, there are various parameters, but my belief is that this was the determinant one.

I am not hiding the fact that we screwed up: our evaluation of the track has been incomplete, and the tyres we had on the premises were not able to do the job. That is very clear. Our tyre was not appropriate for Indy, that's all.

But the reaction Michelin received was, we feel, more positive than negative. I've been sent to the US twice afterwards, to the Detroit and Vegas auto shows. The idea was for me to face possible reaction from the crowd, from the people.

And all the reaction I had - without exception - was 'well done for taking responsibility and for taking care of the refund'.

So my perception is that everybody understood what the situation was: everybody understands that Michelin screwed up but treated the situation with responsibility and in the best possible way under the circumstances.

But, still, people are upset because there should have been a race.

At Indy, that weekend, everybody believed that the race will be on somehow - with a trick like a chicane, or something like that. The Michelin teams said immediately that they will race not for points, not to worry about it, just make sure that the race will be on. But any suggestion that was thrown around didn't look feasible.

Someone told me afterwards that Max Mosley believed that weekend, absolutely strongly, that this was a political manoeuvre from the manufacturer-backed teams and Michelin against him personally.

So I think Mosley has been badly advised on this. Mosley didn't understand the situation. It was so obvious.

The more Bernie or Ron Dennis or Briatore talked to him, the more against he was. He was totally negative. He did not perceive the situation, did not evaluate the situation properly. He was badly informed. He's a smart person, so I am convinced that he's been badly informed and badly advised.

So yes, we screwed up. But we did the right thing, and we also offered solutions. The FIA simply did not want to help.

To this day, it defies belief that a solution was not found."

Water under the bridge now, but it confirms what a lot of people believed at the time.............blame the FIA

[manchild]

Indy 2006, Thursday

[Scuderia_Russ]

BTW, there was a FIA trial that found Michelin teams not guilty so I see no reason to put blame on Michelin at all.

The Michelin teams were not at fault it was the Michelin company itself. Two different entities. And I have to agree with Flynfrog, all that link seemed to show was how Michelin screwed up royal.