F1 engines 2011

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G-Rock
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Hey with all this steam rhetoric, how much water do you need on board to make this system work? 200 liters?
:wink:
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joseff
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You need lots of steam volume but that equals not much water.

ss_collins
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I was looking at the Cosworth CAV8 a few weeks ago amazing how little water used in the cooling system and how quickly its moved around the circuit.

mx_tifoso
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Has anyone calculated the approximate weight of this powertrain/drivertrain configuration :?:
From a personal point of view I would say it weighs a considerable amount more than the current engine, and even the previous V10's.

What would be the total output if this proposal became a reality :?: approx.

joseff wrote:You need lots of steam volume but that equals not much water.
Approximately how much water would be needed :?:
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enkidu
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OMG...... :lol: Im sorry I nearly fell off my chair laughing too much.


You know I was wondering how you could turn heat energy into electric energy the other day. I could not think of any other solution apart from steam, this has got to be the best way as all of the power stations even nuclear just heat water to make steam.


But whats makin me laugh so much about this is its going on an F1 car LOL I keep seeing steam trains with spoilers and wings on puffing out smoke and steam as they go round.... chuff chuff chuff LMAO.

Seems like a great idea, we could see some great explosions when they let go!!!


Anyway thats the energy recovery from the exhaust, how the hell are they doing this in the brakes? Please don't tell me there is steam engines on each wheel???

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joseff
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@mx_tifosi: I've no idea how much steam/water is needed, it all depends on the type of steam engine you want to run: turbine, piston? How many stages?

@enkidu: Unlikely this will let go, you just need a blowoff valve aimed away from the cockpit, and it'll just go puff like overfilled oil at the start. Is it even possible to do radiatorless cars? In this case fuel and water are topped off every pitstop, and the cars keep cool by boiling water and venting off steam, like NASA spacesuits. This assuming that the steam engine takes a lot of energy off the steam circuit, of course.

Regarding the brakes, I'm sure if liquid cooling is allowed (currently banned) the teams will jump at the opportunity to recover heat from the brakes. This removes the need for brake ducting, and the coolant can be routed through the wishbones, improving aero.
I could not think of any other solution apart from steam
You could also attach a generator to a Stirling engine
Or go straight from heat to electric power.

I read the other day a bunch of Aussie highschoolers made a coolantless aircon, using the Peltier effect. So yah, it follows that the reverse should be doable. And if it's only marginally doable, where else to test it but F1? :D

PS: I'm sure some of you think I forgot to take my medicine for suggesting a radiatorless engine. At least one guy is trying it out, though. But not with a closed-circuit steam engine.

enkidu
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Peltier's require an electric current and have a hot side and a cool side.... I don't think they would be any use. How else could you turn heat into electricity in one phase?

Belatti
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Re: F1 engines 2011

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Do you believe in casuality or in causality?

Well, yesterday I was reading this thread, today I read this news:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/news ... ed-record/

Q: Are you conceptual the chris that made the comments in that news?
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WhiteBlue
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Re: F1 engines 2011

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apart from the V12 idea it sounds very much like an engine with KERS and HERS. Heat recovery will almost certainly work with a steam cyle but I doubt that water steam will be used. as in the known organic Rankine cycles alcohol or organic refrigerants will be used. perhaps this is a split cylinder design and it is comparable to a V6. it would probably have high efficiency but the power/weight ratio may still be unfavourite. my guess for 2013 is still a turbocharged smaller diesel with fewer cylinders and max power recovery from radiator, exhaust heat and brakes. the total engine efficiency with HERS could go up from 28% to 50%. the weight saved on the engine will be used for the HERS anbd KERS. the combined power(with KERS push) could well be close to 1000 bhp with a considerably smaller engine.

this thread is very old and the newer threads on hybrid systems have much more comments on the steamer technology.

regarding pure steam engines I don't see the efficiencies any better than a combined TCD/ORC process. in fact it probably is lower than the turbo charged diesel alone.
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Conceptual
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Re: F1 engines 2011

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Belatti wrote:Do you believe in casuality or in causality?

Well, yesterday I was reading this thread, today I read this news:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/news ... ed-record/

Q: Are you conceptual the chris that made the comments in that news?
Nope.

Chris