Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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doorboot
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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I think a lot of people defending MM are missing the point. Yes sure his personal sex life has nothing to do with motorsport but his integrity and judgment does. He nailed McLaren for being cheats, and by doing this he took the moral high ground. With this scandal he has lost that moral high ground, and is now trying to regain it by the statement that he issued, by claiming a conspiracy. By doing this he acknowledges that his integrity is under attack. And if the man is of questionable moral fiber and questionable judgment is he the right man for the job? Or is adultery all of a sudden OK? I am sure his wife and kids would disagree…
By the way he does not deny the allegations.
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GTO
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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What he does privately should stay private. Yes, I agree his private life should not affect his public life/work.

But if he does not use enough discretion or not display proper maturity to take precautions and allow his private life to become displayed publicly & embarass the whole sport & everyone involved like it has then it is his fault. He has allowed his "private affairs" to become public. Thus, it is now open to public scruity/criticism/judgment/vilification...etc. He has misused his freedom which has lead to cause humiliation to others. :oops: This is no longer a confidential & private matter. :!:

Thus, just as he has applied judgement with the law of confidentialiy of information & its misuse to others, it must apply definitely to him also. It is a double edged sword.

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Principessa
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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This might be a stupid question, but can Mosley be fired as President of the FIA? And if so, by who?

bhall
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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The argument that just because he committed adultery, thus giving up some sort of high ground, doesn't hold water.

Martin Luther King, Jr.; John F. Kennedy; Franklin Roosevelt; Alexander Hamilton; Princess Diana; Albert Einstein and Lloyd George are merely some of the people I can think of off the top of my head who committed adultery and still managed to make great contributions to society. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying Max Mosley is a "great" man, or even in the same league as some of those people I just mentioned. I'm just saying that simply committing adultery is not such an egregious offense as to completely discount them.

I'm not a fan of Max Mosley. I eagerly await the day when he is no longer president of the FIA. But to suggest that he be removed from his position because of this incident is ludicrous. It's his private life. And everyone should be afforded the right to privacy, no matter what.

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Iciano
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Principessa wrote:This might be a stupid question, but can Mosley be fired as President of the FIA? And if so, by who?
I dont know if he can be fired, but as he was elected, im sure there could be a vote of no confidence by the other members or something along those lines maybe?

Adultery is one thing, but adultery mixed with anti semitism when you hold a position of influence and power representing such a large sport/business(all motorsports that fall under the FIA'a umbrella, not just F1) is something else...
Last edited by Iciano on 02 Apr 2008, 00:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Rob W
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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donskar wrote:Max represents an enormous, multinational marketing enterprise (we call it F1) that...
Actually, he is the head of the FIA which is the governing body of the motorsport event side of F1. They have basically nothing to do with - and are usually kept at arms length from - the marketing side of things. And for good reason. The FIA make the sport rules, regulations etc. Formula One Group run the marketing and commercial rights (TV etc) side of things (amongst other things).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_Management

Also.. I stand corrected.. Max's statement does look like a lawyer's way of admitting something to me. Now that I've seen it I have joined the chorus of believers. I can't believe he would be so careless. Anyway, he will find out who put the spies on him and sue the crap out of the newspaper for sure.

I'm betting someone associated with McLaren hired to investigators. Ron will be laughing every morning as he reads the newspaper over this.

R

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P_O_L
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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In a way its nobodys bizzniz what he does privatly. I feel sorry for the grieve this has cast on his family.

However i also think he cannot stay on as president of the FIA. If he did id be very suprised.

And the posters who think his rules have damaged f1...this year nobody for sure can run with any form of traction control. 2005, 2006 and especially 2007 (according to the brit press) was one of the best seasons in years. Today the field is closer than ever and cars are having put nobody in a coffin since sennas death 14 years ago. You can think of him what you like but i reckon at the very least he was a very capable fia president.
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Conceptual
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Well,

I look at this situation as very complex, yet very simple at the same time. Max snivveling about people prying into his private life is honestly quite laughable, since ANY celebrity is going to have this problem. Look at what happened to Princess Di. Prime example of the media using a crowbar to break into peoples private lives. If Max didn't think that these well planned "events" (I'm sure this wasn't the first one like this) would find their way into the media, then he is either stupid, or believes he is above the influence. On either account, he should have known better.

Does this effect his ability to do his job? YES. Maybe not in any operational capacity, nor in any decision making that is within his span of control, but this is DEFFINATELY an angle that the haters in the media will NEVER allow him to live it down. No matter how many lawsuits about the origins are successful, the damage is done, and there is no court in the universe that can remove the knowledge of what has transpired from the millions worldwide that have read about it already.

The real damage is done to his credibility. I am sure there are thousands of photoshopped Max Mosely pictures in process to illustrate this entire issue. After the news media pokes fun at him and his sexual practices, editorials call for his resignation, and the pictures get worldwide circulation, it is going to be IMPOSSIBLE for most people to take him seriously, no matter how amazing his ideas or regulation changes may be from here on out. And as the elected President of the FIA, credibility is the ONE intangible that I would think would be ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to be effective in his position.

It is no secret that I am not a Max fan, but I kinda feel for him on this one. In one hand he has to carry the weight of the World Motorsport Community on his shoulders, and on the other hand, he participated in a very intense fantasy fulfillment.

I don't think that a $100M fine is going to make this one go away, and the more that it is brushed aside, the more that the media is going to blow it up.

Poor Max, I hope that the "escapade" was worth it, because I don't think that he is anywhere NEAR done paying for it. Be it money, his marriage, or his shame in the media.

We will see how seriously he is taken after all of this.

Chris

superstring
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Max Mosley is a mean-spirited sanctimonious prick who delights in lording it over others. It's a shame that so few in the motorsports community have had the balls to stand up to him. I'd rather he were removed based on his policies, but if this is what it takes to get rid of him, so be it.

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gcdugas
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Ted68 wrote:I agree that the ever tightening regs have hurt F1. And I agree that M. M. is at the helm of that ship. But what he does to chase his pleasure has nothing to do with what he has done as President of the FIA.

If the argument is that those who enjoy S&M are not to be in power because the rest of the populace is put off by it, than should we also openly ban homosexuals from any sort of managerial position? N0! Because ones job is not the place for their sexual pursuits in any case (typically).

And as for M. M.'s replacement, as Checkered posted earlier in this thread, many have called for that for some time. However, no one has been able to oppose him or replace him.

And now something completely different...

In February Bernie hints there are not enough sex scandals in F1. In March Todt resigns from Ferrari. April fools days ses a Mosely sex scandal. Will May see Todt replace Mosely? All according to Ecclestone's plan?



This is where you are wrong. Max's personal issues with power, authority etc. have affected his job performance from day one. His tyrannical approach is directly tied to his "personal life". He seeks to exceed his office's authority and afflict us all with his socialistic centralized planning view of El-Cheapo F1, limited wind tunnel time, customer cars etc. This is not within the realm of his office. Indeed, many of the goofy regs from 1997 (grooved tyres, narrow cars) have been thrust upon the teams despite the Concorde Agreement leaving that to the Technical Working Group (TWG). Spec'd cylinder spacing, spec'd alloys, and the move to 2.4 V8s under the guise of the "safety clause" are all illustrative of Max's abuses and his warped sense of power.

We have only seen the tip of this particular iceberg. If those who "set him up" are as organized as they appear, if they are "funded by clients unknown", then we can expect very detailed footage from a room filled with secret cameras and microphones. We can expect the heat to be incrementally turned up until Max cries "enough". His absence from Bahrain is just the beginning. Certainly he won't be able to go to Germany. I expect him to resign as soon as the heat is turned up by corporate big wigs. BMW and Mercedes will agitate for him removal in a discrete way. It is politically unpalatable to defend Max's dungeon antics since he is the son of a famous Nazi sympathizer (whether or not the S&M had Nazi overtones).

BTW, suppose you were Ron Dennis and this particular Madam came to you and said she could deliver you all the footage you could want for a price.... would you pass up the opportunity? What about Paul Stoddard? Max has plenty of people who would be delighted to see him gone. Max is toast and it is only a matter of a week or less before it is all over for him.

Max must go. Not because of S & M, but because of his warped views on how to run a motorsport organization. But I would argue that they are one and the same.

Dave Richards for FIA President???? He is non-partisan enough. He would have to divest from the WRC or decline the job should it be offered to him.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1

mcdenife
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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I am with Conceptual on this. More so because Max's main form of argument/debate with dissenters, opponents or people who disagree with him etc, is to attack their integrity and credibilty, belittle or denigrate them. Eg when his handling of spygate was called into question his response was to label Jackie Stewart as a half wit (because of his dyslexia or maybe his dress sense)etc etc. Implying therefore that JS is not credible/intelligent enough to have anything of value to say on the subject. Well his credibility/integrity/morality but especially his judgement are now very questionable because of this.
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

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SoundMan
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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mcdenife wrote:I am with Conceptual on this. More so because Max's main form of argument/debate with dissenters, opponents or people who disagree with him etc, is to attack their integrity and credibilty, belittle or denigrate them. Eg when his handling of spygate was called into question his response was to label Jackie Stewart as a half wit (because of his dyslexia or maybe his dress sense)etc etc. Implying therefore that JS is not credible/intelligent enough to have anything of value to say on the subject. Well his credibility/integrity/morality but especially his judgement are now very questionable because of this.

totally agree, becasue of this he really HAS to go, i mean, whos gona be able to talk to him with a straight face now... :!: :?:

segedunum
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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mcdenife wrote:I am with Conceptual on this. More so because Max's main form of argument/debate with dissenters, opponents or people who disagree with him etc, is to attack their integrity and credibilty, belittle or denigrate them. Eg when his handling of spygate was called into question his response was to label Jackie Stewart as a half wit (because of his dyslexia or maybe his dress sense)etc etc.
I quite agree. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

You can perhaps just about get away with fooling around with a young intern and a straight-down-the-middle affair, but when you're in a high position it affects peoples' perception of you much more than in any other job you could have. When you're meeting people from all over the world and representing a sport, you have to keep your personal life separate and make sure it doesn't spill over. In Max's case it has, and what he has been up to is simply beyond the pale. Although no one in F1 has taken him seriously for a very long time, people outside F1 will not be able to deal with him at all now. Every interview he gives will be excruciating.

Of course Max seems to have some kind of complex where he feels he is above everything and what he says is automatically right, and it just shows how utterly damaged F1 and the FIA is when someone can just cling on like that.

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tarzoon
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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segedunum wrote: I quite agree. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

(...)

Of course Max seems to have some kind of complex where he feels he is above everything and what he says is automatically right, and it just shows how utterly damaged F1 and the FIA is when someone can just cling on like that.
It seems that a tabloid managed to shake up this F1 season...

First of all, I don't like tabloids. I find absurd the way they advertise someone's life just because they peed against a wall or because they had the wrong clothes. And it's even more absurd that anyone buys them just to gossip about other people's lives.

...Yet they are selling and making Murdoch & Co. the biggest opinion makers...

I don't know and don't care if the news is true or not, if he was with 347 prostitutes, drag queens or both. Not my business and not a reason to kick someone. It doesn't interfere with professional life, and we haven't been there to confirm the events. What matters is that Mosley hasn't been the kindest person to F1. Every little thing he does appears to go very wrong. And if it goes to the point of MM being sacked, then it will be due to the wrong reasons.

ben_watkins
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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From his admission of guilt letter.. anyone got an idea about this bit?
Max Mosely
"From information provided to me by an impeccable high-level source close to the UK police and security services, I understand that over the last two weeks or so, a covert investigation of my private life and background has been undertaken by a group specialising in such things, for reasons and clients as yet unknown. I have had similar but less well-sourced information from France.

Who could his "impeccable high-level source" be that is close to UK police and security services?

:?:
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