Honda F1 in trouble, and withdraw from F1

[rkn]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=36686

It has been confirmed now, they're pulling out!

Always sad to see at team go, even if I feel they've been deadweight for the last few years.

[timbo]

Yes
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72322

Let's hope F1 won't follow steps of Sportscar championship and CanAm where manufacturers were deeply involved at once and than simply left...

[xpensive]

I am in agreement with Ian P. in believing that the never-ending rule-changes from a wannabee-engineer within the FIA has created enormous costs for the teams.

Another problem that comes with all these manufacturers is that somebody has to finish last, spending 300 MEUR when winning is one thing, but as a backmarker, it's just burning money.

Surely Peugeot is happy they decided to focus on WRC for a fraction of the cost.

[Ciro Pabón]

What about the Concorde agreement?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't FOM has an obligation to field 18 cars? I remember a system in place to add "randomly picked" teams to complete that number (or 20, I'm not sure).

On top of that, those "extra-cars" nor their drivers can win championship points....

[jamsbong]

Ouch!!

One can also understand the lack of progress in Honda in the last few years. I always joke "I bet I can guess who is at the bottom". That is how bad they had been.

this is the outcome of economy crisis. I bet all car manufacturers like Renault, BMW, and Toyota will be considering Honda's move.

Looks like a gloomy day for F1.

[3KGT]

This is terrible, F1 needs manufacturers to be involved. I know the team is largely responsible for its own failures but this should be a wake up call to the FIA. I hope we see a major restructuring sometime soon so this does not become the trend.

[xpensive]

Probably other non-winning big-spenders will follow, Toyota should be my guess.
On the privateer side, Williams should be ok given they have their 2009 budget secured by now, but Force India?
A team which has been passed around like a tray of cookes for the past few years, now depending on an airline?

[pipex]

What about the Concorde agreement?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't FOM has an obligation to field 18 cars? I remember a system in place to add "randomly picked" teams to complete that number (or 20, I'm not sure).

On top of that, those "extra-cars" nor their drivers can win championship points....

You are right Ciro, but the number of total cars is not very clear, at least from what i found. Here is the leaked concorde agreement of 1997
http://www.concordeagreement.com/FullConcorde.pdf
It says that the limit is 16 cars, other entries filled with extra cars from random selected teams. But here Paul Stoddart said

if we fall below twenty cars, to the need, and it is quite clearly described in
Concorde, to run non-points scoring third cars

So from what he said is 20 cars.
Source here http://www.concordeagreement.com/Clause10.html
I think that the one from the original concorde agreement leaked pdf is the correct one (16). It would be nice if someone can confirm this, so this post was nearly pure white noise

Regards

[Ciro Pabón]

You're very kind, pipex; thanks, mate.

Well, the wake up calls have been all around for the last two years. This forum "saw it coming" here, in early 2007. If we can, FIA could.

BTW, NASCAR is worse. ABC cut the Phoenix race 30 laps or so before the end (after a gazillion boring laps) to show "America's funniest videos". France was livid, but as GM is broke, what can he do? The best comment I read:

"I knew we were in trouble," one Johnson team member told the Associated Press, "when I looked at the monitor and saw a monkey scratching its butt.

You have to wonder how FOM is going to pay for the service of a 2.7 billion debt.

[andartop]

It s all clear now. THIS is why Bernie wanted the medals system. If you re only left with 10 cars it makes sense...

[xpensive]

Good one that, andartop, but jokes aside, this is serious stuff.

anyone knows how FIA's resonse wiil be, can you just quit F1 like that? What about the, by now ridicilous, 50 MUSD deposit, can Honda gat that back?

[freedom_honda]

i still don't get why they are pulling out since 2009 Honda is obviously able to challenge for the win. (i know some might not agree.)
and Honda has spent so much on Formula One this year (2008 biggest spender) to develop RA109 and their KERS system.
it is just a stupid move to leave Formula One with such awful results.
once again it highlights the management problems within Honda.
The japanese management style obviously doesn't work anymore.
if they have sacked Nick Fry, Nakamoto earlier, and keep Geoff Willis. Honda may have gained a couple more victories in 2007 and 2008. (i know this is arguable)

i feel so sorry for Jenson. i mean he gotta be the unluckiest driver.
next year was gonna be his year. (again, i know this is arguable. But im a Honda and Button fan ) but now bloody honda is pulling out. im deeply disappointed on Honda is treating both drivers.
rumours are saying that Bernie is trying to get Williams to sign Button. i don't know if thats true. but given the recent performance of Williams i don't know if that a good choice. (no offense Williams fan)

Formula One is simple becoming a joke. and im afraid this is the beginning of the end of Formula One.

[ginsu]

Wow. I haven't posted in a while but this is really depressing. I started watching formula one in 2003 because of Honda's involvement, and while I haven't been excited about results for a few years now, I was truly anticipating a great rise this season.

But, damn, this is bad for everybody, especially F1. Poor, Jenson, he will almost certainly lose his drive now. I thought he had serious potential there, it's a shame Honda never took him seriously. And no Ross Brawn resurgence with Honda? This is a really sad day.

Hopefully, this means Honda the automotive company will survive, but without their racing heritage their cars will get even more uninteresting. I guess we will all know the true glory days of Honda are past.

so sad...

[sunny1304]

honda has announced their retirement.

its sad....we are losing a team who make their own chasis and engine. this year F1 will not be interesting.....only 18 cars are there.......sad...i am frustrated. honda was one of my favourite team.

[axle]

Honda have a history for just pulling the plug so in that light this isn't surprising, they have moved to protect the Honda company as a whole.

At least they are not asking for a silly amount of money, literally £1 will secure the team asssuming you have the finances to run it. Ok that's still a lot, but you don't have to run a full team, the team could be scaled down to a FI/Williams sized one. Shame Bill Gates or Warren Buffett don't have an interest Then again, maybe Bernie can convince his mate Lakshmi Mittal...

I wonder if this issue has been made worse by the Earth Dreams campaign, after all it wasn't exactly a money spinner so Honda have been funding it directly, if it had sponsorship to cover half the costs surely it wouldn't have made such a quick decision.