US car industry about to break down?

[Conceptual]

CAREFUL MAN!

Now you sound just like a Libertarian too!

[Ray]

I don't affiliate with any party. I'm my own man, I don't belong to any group based on income, skin color, height, weight or any other 'classification'. By putting people into 'groups' or political parties you segregate them on the most basic of levels. We're all humans that deserve to live life as we please.

[xpensive]

Never mind Conseptual, Ciro is on vacation this month, so to hell with etiquette!

Anyway, just for comparison of how the true corporative state can work in practicality, I just heard on the news here that Volvo Trucks has been granted a government "loan", you know the kind you never have to pay back, of 400 MEUR.

This is the same company that shelled out some 5 billion EUR to their shareholders over the past five years.

That is bloody disgusting if you ask me, while Max's dad might have liked it.

[safeaschuck]

Just a few thought's, sorry I know I'm no where near riled up enough to be posting on this thread!
From what I can see there is no way to save GM in the way that they are trying to, i.e. preserve as many jobs as possible.
In order to become a profitable company they need products more relevant to todays marketplace. Lots of them and fast. Regardless of the current market conditions they require class leading, or at least competetive cars to be available to stand a chance of selling them. No matter which way you look at it that means a LOT more money for re-tooling and training plus a lot of downtime.
The alternative of course is massive layoffs and plant closures (probably requiring chapter 11 protection), giving them far smaller emphasis on unprofitable model lines. This would fail to keep people in work though.
Chrysler, being smaller already seems a better bet for this approach and Fiat seem to be in a position to make that happen, plus if the Soprano's is to be believed, there's already plenty of mafia involvement in America anyway! they should get on well with G.W. Bush's old buddies at Cerebrus capital too, or did they end up swapping out for GMAC, I got so bored of the tooing and froing I gave up on that.
If GM were to go under Chrysler could pick up a percentage of thier better plants and some employee's.
Either way they need to spin off GM europe pretty quick so it can be saved as their products, whilst not quite as inspiring as mercs, beemers and some Jap wagons are pretty good for the everyday buyer and they are quite capable of making a profit, although perhaps not right now.

In my meandering I thought what a good idea it would be to ship all the thousands of brand new small and mid sized highly fuel efficient cars with good driving and styling dynamics which are sat in european holding yards waiting for a sale which will never come over to the States. Fords, Opels (GM), We can make them all day long, but everyone over here has one already, and their sticking with it till thigs improve. They would make a loss, but less of a loss than watching them rust AND it's another buyers butt in a new generation GM or Ford which might get people keen about buying one in the future (Which by that time would be made in the states).
It got to the point where I looked up what might be stopping this...

Crash regulations.
NCAP (europe) asses low speed frontal impact at 15mph based on the damage to a pedestrian.
ANCAP (states) asses the same test at 7mph based on the damage it does to the car.

The American approach is at the behest of the insurance companies, who don't want to dip into their wallet for every little shunt.
Euro cars, in the main require quite a few mods to pass this test, putting an end to my bright idea.

At times like these you would think the powers that be might consider relaxing or ammending rules like that. Oh well.

[Conceptual]

Just a few thought's, sorry I know I'm no where near riled up enough to be posting on this thread!
From what I can see there is no way to save GM in the way that they are trying to, i.e. preserve as many jobs as possible.
In order to become a profitable company they need products more relevant to todays marketplace. Lots of them and fast. Regardless of the current market conditions they require class leading, or at least competetive cars to be available to stand a chance of selling them. No matter which way you look at it that means a LOT more money for re-tooling and training plus a lot of downtime.
The alternative of course is massive layoffs and plant closures (probably requiring chapter 11 protection), giving them far smaller emphasis on unprofitable model lines. This would fail to keep people in work though.
Chrysler, being smaller already seems a better bet for this approach and Fiat seem to be in a position to make that happen, plus if the Soprano's is to be believed, there's already plenty of mafia involvement in America anyway! they should get on well with G.W. Bush's old buddies at Cerebrus capital too, or did they end up swapping out for GMAC, I got so bored of the tooing and froing I gave up on that.
If GM were to go under Chrysler could pick up a percentage of thier better plants and some employee's.
Either way they need to spin off GM europe pretty quick so it can be saved as their products, whilst not quite as inspiring as mercs, beemers and some Jap wagons are pretty good for the everyday buyer and they are quite capable of making a profit, although perhaps not right now.

In my meandering I thought what a good idea it would be to ship all the thousands of brand new small and mid sized highly fuel efficient cars with good driving and styling dynamics which are sat in european holding yards waiting for a sale which will never come over to the States. Fords, Opels (GM), We can make them all day long, but everyone over here has one already, and their sticking with it till thigs improve. They would make a loss, but less of a loss than watching them rust AND it's another buyers butt in a new generation GM or Ford which might get people keen about buying one in the future (Which by that time would be made in the states).
It got to the point where I looked up what might be stopping this...

Crash regulations.
NCAP (europe) asses low speed frontal impact at 15mph based on the damage to a pedestrian.
ANCAP (states) asses the same test at 7mph based on the damage it does to the car.

The American approach is at the behest of the insurance companies, who don't want to dip into their wallet for every little shunt.
Euro cars, in the main require quite a few mods to pass this test, putting an end to my bright idea.

At times like these you would think the powers that be might consider relaxing or ammending rules like that. Oh well.

BINGO!

Now look at the secret Credit Reporting system, the Adjustable rate mortages that were bundled as securities with high return rates, because the banks KNEW that the borrowers' credit would not allow for a refinance into a 30yr fixed rate, so at 2 years, the mortgage holders ran the borrowers credit report, and jacked their interest rates through the roof.

Geico insurance also goes by your credit rating instead of your driving record for your policy.

The Credit Bureaus need to be removed, and replaced with a system that is NOT secretative, and can immediately have corrections made. Experian in 1999 told me to my face that up to 30% of their records were wrong, and when I asked why it wasn't fixed, their rep told me "because it gives them a reason to charge people more money..."

When money means more than people, Corporations have won, and The People are the losers.

It is time to reset the game, because the abusers have won.

[Ciro Pabón]

Never mind Conseptual, Ciro is on vacation this month, so to hell with etiquette!

I'll take that as a compliment.

[Deerfield805]

50% tax? LMAO. I wish I could pay 50% tax. I'm a business owner in California USA. Between federal tax, state tax, sales tax, property tax, workmans comp, auto regestration, gasoline tax and God forbid tax on my beer, it's closer to 65% to 70%. I love my country, but if you are a single, childless self employed guy, boy are you screwed.

[Conceptual]

/nt

[donskar]

Wow! Do we ever need a race to talk about!

[Deerfield805]

Amen.

[Carlos]

Seems we're mostly immigrants here in N America. But that doesn't count. We've heard Conceptual's suggestions about industrial slavelabour, dark skinned, Spanish speaking sharecroppers on other amusing racist threads. If I married a woman born in another country, I'd have to watch over my kids real careful. Conceptual would probably want to make them into soap and lampshades.

On topic - During the problem times, the Peerless Motor Company adapted by changing product, from cars - to Carling Black Label beer.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/11 ... nds/18.htm

EDIT - Conceptual I certainly acknowledge my sarcasm is harsh and biased, then again I have my own perceptions and opinions. But rest assured, I would never question your sense of patriotism. Perhaps better as a PM though I felt it best on record to all members.

On topic. The problems of the auto companies are certainly a vital matter of economic security affecting future manufacturing in N America. The loss is incalcuable, mostly I am discouraged by the loss of jobs, the lives and families that are ravaged by hardship and despair, the horror, degradation and suffering of many ordinary people, that went to work and did a good job, to be without a paycheck through no fault of their own, because the financial system descends into greed that exceeds all common sense and decency. Thanks for listening everyone.

[Conceptual]

Seems we're mostly immigrants here in N America. But that doesn't count. We've heard Conceptual's suggestions about industrial slavelabour, dark skinned, Spanish speaking sharecroppers on other amusing racist threads. If I married a woman born in another country, I'd have to watch over my kids real careful. Conceptual would probably want to make them into soap and lampshades.

On topic - During the problem times, the Peerless Motor Company adapted by changing product, from cars - to Carling Black Label beer.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/11 ... nds/18.htm

I actually take offense to that Carlos. Just because people choose to twist my stance on individual rights, legal immigration status, and less government oversite in my pursuit of happiness, does not make me a racist, it makes me a Patriot.

Any other deffinition does not apply to be honest, I guess you almost have to be American to appreciate what I am talking about...

[ISLAMATRON]

Seems we're mostly immigrants here in N America. But that doesn't count. We've heard Conceptual's suggestions about industrial slavelabour, dark skinned, Spanish speaking sharecroppers on other amusing racist threads. If I married a woman born in another country, I'd have to watch over my kids real careful. Conceptual would probably want to make them into soap and lampshades.

On topic - During the problem times, the Peerless Motor Company adapted by changing product, from cars - to Carling Black Label beer.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/11 ... nds/18.htm

I actually take offense to that Carlos. Just because people choose to twist my stance on individual rights, legal immigration status, and less government oversite in my pursuit of happiness, does not make me a racist, it makes me a Patriot.

Any other deffinition does not apply to be honest, I guess you almost have to be American to appreciate what I am talking about...

Yes! because your ancestors were "legal" immigrants invited over to this land by the natives. Thats what makes you a Patriot. Those you call illigal immigrants probably have more bloodright to this land than you or any of your ancestors... but you are too blinded by patriotism to see that.