Rear diffuser Appeal Predictions

[ESPImperium]

Diffuser Gate, My Prediction;

Brawn, Toyoat and Williams will get off, their diffusers will be deemed legal.

McLaren, BMW Sauber and Force India will put their new diffusers on at Shanghai. Gain .7 a second a lap, mean-while the "diffuser 3 will introduce some new aero parts to make them faster (again) by .5 of a second.

Ferarri and RBR/STR will have a new diffuser developed for first or second race of the "European season" but Renault will languish, untill a late season resurgance, like last year.

Diffusers ala Brawn, Toyota and Williams will be outlawed for 2010 tho.

[jamsbong]

I have no doubt that the diffusers is legal. To say that they are illegal and "not in the spirit of the sport" is to say "being innovative in F1 is a crime and the engineers should do everything predictable" and Ferraris and Mclarens must be on top. That is just wrong IMO.

I know all teams who are protesting must be redesigning their diffusers. Whether they will bring it to China. that I'm not sure. but it is worth it coz China and Bahrain are tracks be large corners and benefits a lot from good aero.

I think what happens is that Mclaren, Renault and Ferraris decided to focus on both things; Aero and KERS and they thought they've done enough. Now it seems Focusing on Aero only like Williams, RedBull, Toyota, and Brawn is proving to be more effective method of gaining speed.

It is refreshing to see new teams on top but certainly I want my favourites to make a comeback. hehee...

[KJM3]

I find it so ironic that the Overtaking Working Group (OWG) (Renault, McLaren and Ferrari) designed the idea for these 2009 cars and none of them thought of this.

The only teams that thought of this double deck diffuser are all the teams that weren't part of the OWG.

I guess the OWG was too close to their work to look at the rules with a fresh set of eyes.

- KJ

[bill shoe]

I know it's unlikely the Brawn/Toyota/Williams diffusers will be declared illegal, but for giggles lets look at where the race results and standings will be if the FIA does do this-

Australia-
1. Alonso (Renault)
2. Buemi (STR)
3. Bourdais (STR)
4. Sutil (Force India)
5. Heidfeld (BMW)
6. Fiscichella (Force India)
7. Webber (Red Bull)
8. Vettel* (Red Bull)
*Remarkably earning a point over Kubica precisely because his team told him to keep going when he was in three wheeler mode.

Malaysia-
1. Heidfeld (BMW)
2. Webber (Red Bull)
3. Hamilton (McLaren)
4. Massa (Ferrari)
5. Bourdais (STR)
6. Alonso (Renault)
7. Piquet (Renault)
8. Raikkonen* (Ferrari)
*Remarkably becoming the first driver in F1 history to earn points while in the garage wearing flip-flops and eating ice cream. He truly is the ice man.

Drivers Championship-
1. Alonso, 11.5
2. Heidfeld, 9
3. Buemi, 8
4. Bourdais, 8
5. Webber, 6
6. Sutil, 5
7. Hamilton, 3
8. Fiscichella, 3
9. Massa, 2.5
10. Piquet, 1
11. Vettel, 1
12. Raikkonen, 0.5

Constructors Championship-
1. STR, 16
2. Renault, 12.5
3. BMW, 9
4. Force India, 8
5. Red Bull, 7
6. McLaren, 3
7. Ferrari, 3

If the new rules were supposed to shake things up then this would get the job done. The amazing thing is that even with the mass disqualification of the "diffuser three", Ferrari would still only have 3 points!

[alvinkhorfire]

Diffusers ala Brawn, Toyota and Williams will be outlawed for 2010 tho.

Why don't FIA ban the diffuser straight away this year? I know that it is sound unfair to Brawn, Toyota and Williams, but all teams will be spending money on something that will be banned next year. Money will be wasted even though cost-cutting is being encouraged. I think that the points they have earned will still be retained, but the diffuser has to be banned to avoid excessive money spending.

[Chaparral]

Diffusers ala Brawn, Toyota and Williams will be outlawed for 2010 tho.

Why don't FIA ban the diffuser straight away this year? I know that it is sound unfair to Brawn, Toyota and Williams, but all teams will be spending money on something that will be banned next year. Money will be wasted even though cost-cutting is being encouraged. I think that the points they have earned will still be retained, but the diffuser has to be banned to avoid excessive money spending.

Al thats a double edged comment there - on one side your saying its improper for the 7 teams to be forced to spend many millions rebuilding the rear end of the car in this cost cutting era - so thats adjudging the 3 (Williams Toyota & Brawn) to be outside the guidelines - so given your take you would force Williams Toyota & Brawn into spending millions on rebuilding the rear end of their cars - that doesnt sound too logical or fair wouldnt you say - especially when Brawn went and pointed out to all teams in March 2007 that there are two ways you can build the diffuser and then offered to clean up the rules on the diffuser and bargeboards etc - and he was flatly refused/ignored and he's the head of technical for FOTA. I say to the magnificent 7 just get over it and build a better mouse trap

[Dukeage]

The diffusers should be found legal, however especially Toyota should be given a slap on the knuckles for making human shields around them - the rules make it clear that you can't use covers, and human shields are basically covers.

[xpensive]

What if Brawn's diffuser "interpretation" will be deemed legal for 2009, while rules will be clearified for 2010, this mess doesn't exactly help encouraging new teams? In the mean time, the "grandees" will spend millions on buliding new cars for the remainder of 2009, as well as for 2010? But I can't see Ferrari soldier on with a car that can't possibly win?

On the other hand, if the "grandees", on the basis of the above, threatens to quit unless it is declared illegal from China on, then what for the "diffuser-three" if MrM complies with this?

I think MrM is in a mess here, unless he wants to force the "Grandees" out, but that would be a risky thing at the moment.

[virtuso13]

I'm just flabbergasted about the whole issues . Formula one's wonderful ability to F**K itself up every now and then .
I don't understand why redbull , Ferrari, BMW & Renault wanna bully these guys . Brawn , Williams and Tayota started working on the car before most other teams did , they clearly interpreted the rules in a better manner . They had better ideas .

The diffusers were also inspected by Charlie Whiting race director of FIA .
I don't wanna see a ferrari or a mclaren winning every race . These teams will definitely copy the ideas of teams like Brawn and come out on the top .
So please let these underdogs have their moment in the sun .

[Chaparral]

I stand by what I said on this subject above everyone had a chance to modify the diffuser/bargeboards guidelines and werent interested when Brawn offered - however who knows which way this will go - if FOTA as a group is seen as a threat to FOM & the FIA (read Mosely) they could very well deem that Toyota, Williams, Brawn are indeed in breach of the rules - purely to drive a huge wedge between the teams involved in FOTA and destabilise the group - and too be honest I wouldnt put it past Mosley to orchestrate this which is a sad thought in itself

[enkidu]

I don't get what everyone is so damn mad about. They wanted more overtaking, its well known that years ago defussers used to produce most of the downforce and overtaking was not a problem. Now they reduce wings to aid over taking and left a grey spot for defussers.

Defussers are also on a lot of road cars these days, check the Corsa VXR, Focus RS as well as the expensive motors.


Those defussers will be made legal and there will be a difusser battle this year, I can't wait!

[xpensive]

Interesting Concept you got there virtuso13, when so kindly helping us vision-impaired to share your wisdom.

You're not Californian by any chance?

[virtuso13]

Quote xpensive

Interesting Concept you got there virtuso13, when so kindly helping us vision-impaired to share your wisdom.

You're not Californian by any chance?

Dude are you sarcastic

Guys please read this : http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=219

I sure that teams like Williams and Brawn started working on their cars before others did and Williams have accepted that fact . Charlie Whiting had inspected the car long before the aussie GP . He's even admitted the fact that there are loopholes in the rules . These teams have taken benefit of that and i think there is nothing wrong there . Many other teams have not been that innovative so they are like - they are better than us coz they're cheating .
But the plain truth is that these guys didn't spend enough time on the cars compared to others . It is like studying for a test just a day before it .
Ross Brawn rightly said that Ferrari and McLaren are struggling because they worked more on last year's car more than on the new one so they are paying the price for success .

Anyway i feel its good for the sport that people other than Ferrari , McLaren or Renault win .

And i'm not californian

[xpensive]

With my difficulties to read this enlightning info properly, could you possibly revert to block-lettering?

[andartop]

Apologies if this has been pointed out already in another thread, but I'm thinking another reason not to deem the diffusers illegal could be to promote the whole $30m budget-cap extravaganza: Max would be happy to prove that a smart design can outpace a huge budget..