Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
xpensive wrote:
When Saab has made "bio-fuel" as one of their trade-marks, one might suspect that FOTA is planning for a 100% "green" racing series for that year. Perhaps we will see the 2.65 liter methanol-burners back? Remember that Mercedes, Toyota, Honda and Cosworth, all had that technology. Come to think about it, so did Ferrari, but was never raced.
Or turbo-diesels on olive-oil, with support from the EU as part of the agricultural subsidies programme?
Just to clarify. Biofuels are not green technology. They are still a carbon based fuel source. Biofuels are merely a "renewable" fuel alternative, not a green alternative.
My bad: I should've clarified that BioDeisels are carbon based. Fermented plant matter as ethanol is alcohol based. However, Bio-fuels in general still aren't considered green in that they remove land from food production adding to global food shortages.
Last edited by sknguy on 30 Jul 2009, 01:05, edited 1 time in total.
ISLAMATRON wrote:And in 2007 HEidfeld had 61 points to Kubica's 39... to me big nose bob is easily the most overrated driver on the grid. And he definatly did not deserve to take JV's seat.
Webber cleaned Heidfeld's clock quite nicely at Williams-BMW in 2005 with 36 - 28 points.
ISLAMATRON wrote:And in 2007 HEidfeld had 61 points to Kubica's 39... to me big nose bob is easily the most overrated driver on the grid. And he definatly did not deserve to take JV's seat.
Webber cleaned Heidfeld's clock quite nicely at Williams-BMW in 2005 with 36 - 28 points.
That is not that big a difference, but I did think Webbo was clearly better... Kubica hasnt really shown me anything... 1 lucky win when Lewis chose to run into the back of Kimi instead of him.... thats it.
ISLAMATRON wrote:And in 2007 HEidfeld had 61 points to Kubica's 39... to me big nose bob is easily the most overrated driver on the grid. And he definatly did not deserve to take JV's seat.
Webber cleaned Heidfeld's clock quite nicely at Williams-BMW in 2005 with 36 - 28 points.
That is not that big a difference, but I did think Webbo was clearly better... Kubica hasnt really shown me anything... 1 lucky win when Lewis chose to run into the back of Kimi instead of him.... thats it.
yeah I must admit that Kubica has never really stood out as a great driver to me either.
ISLAMATRON wrote:And in 2007 HEidfeld had 61 points to Kubica's 39... to me big nose bob is easily the most overrated driver on the grid. And he definatly did not deserve to take JV's seat.
Webber cleaned Heidfeld's clock quite nicely at Williams-BMW in 2005 with 36 - 28 points.
That is not that big a difference, but I did think Webbo was clearly better... Kubica hasnt really shown me anything... 1 lucky win when Lewis chose to run into the back of Kimi instead of him.... thats it.
Was that the season where Heidfeld raced all year and Kubica and JV shared the car?
I wonder why Nick got more points :/
Kubica, considering his height disadvantage, had Nick quite well in hand overall performance wise.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
ISLAMATRON wrote:And in 2007 HEidfeld had 61 points to Kubica's 39... to me big nose bob is easily the most overrated driver on the grid. And he definatly did not deserve to take JV's seat.
Was that the season where Heidfeld raced all year and Kubica and JV shared the car?
I wonder why Nick got more points :/
Kubica, considering his height disadvantage, had Nick quite well in hand overall performance wise.
Nick got more points because he was better... Bob's shared with JV in 2006... he did 6 races... full season in 2007, except for being injured at the USGP.
Height advantage? is this a new excuse for big nose Bob, the most overrated driver in F1?
It's not an excuse, but it is a reason, one that the whole fraternity agreed with, and upped the minimum car weight to minimize the disadvantage the Kubicas and Wurzeseszes of the world have.
Excuses and reasons are different things altogether.
All of Kubicas F1 experience comes form the same car as Nick. His race/points ratio beats Heidfeld, in the same car.
Nick is a consistent rock, but robert seems to have him in quickness, and youth. Even if he was lucked into the win he got for BMW, he was ahead of Nick in that race, and in that championship he beat him.
If RK is overrated, what is NH? I don't see any advantage to Nick. Once RK had a full season under his belt, and helped develop the new car, he walked away from old Nick and was in shooting distance to win the freakin championship. NH can't say that, and has no reason why he can't other than being slower.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet wrote:It's not an excuse, but it is a reason, one that the whole fraternity agreed with, and upped the minimum car weight to minimize the disadvantage the Kubicas and Wurzeseszes of the world have.
Excuses and reasons are different things altogether.
All of Kubicas F1 experience comes form the same car as Nick. His race/points ratio beats Heidfeld, in the same car.
Nick is a consistent rock, but robert seems to have him in quickness, and youth. Even if he was lucked into the win he got for BMW, he was ahead of Nick in that race, and in that championship he beat him.
If RK is overrated, what is NH? I don't see any advantage to Nick.
Bullshit, since bob's first race Nick has 137 points and bob has 122, but neither are world beaters. Lewis is bigger than Heikki, Nico is bigger then Kazoo, Kimi is bigger than Massa, Alonso bigger than Jr, JB taller than RB, Webber & Vettle are big boys, so were MS, Mika & Mansell... like I said it is an excuse.
Robert has more points per race. He has run less races than Nick.
Nick also whined (which Robert never did bout his height) for half a year about how his driving style couldn't get heat in the tires, while rk made it work.
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, like not changing your driving style to suit a car.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet wrote:Robert has more points per race. He has run less races than Nick.
Nick also whined for half a year about how his driving style couldn't get heat in the tires, while rk made it work.
he does not have more points per race, Nick has only run 1 more race than bob during that time, the 2007 USGP, and nick did not even score that race... 15 points spread over 1 race difference... with 10 points max it is impossible for Bob to have a higher points per race average... please just look at the facts before you make false statements. The numbers dont favor your boy, just accept it.... I for one know that points are not the best measure of a driver.
Bob has whined before he even got a race seat, and bob has not made anything work this year while Nick has a podium.
I got the stats form an article I found when googling kubica vs heidfeld, and this season wasn't taken into account.
I was counting the Canadian GP as a race, as he never finished it either, but I shoudln't have.
But we do agree that neither are world beaters, but RK IS a better qualifier overall, and starting position is huge in F1
"Nick Heidfeld, BMW’s darling driver from the final season at Williams, has started 150 races, scored 200 points and claimed 1 pole position and 2 fastest laps. In his career to date, Heidfeld has looked mature and calculated on many occasions and often finished races higher up the field than other drivers would have achieved given similar circumstances. Of the races last season that were thought to be dull and uninspiring, Nick often overtook other drivers, even managing two passes in one corner at the Belgian Grand Prix.
On the other side of the garage is a driver who is said to be much faster and often talked up to being a future world champion. Robert Kubica has only raced in 40 grands prix, is yet to score a fastest lap but does have 1 pole position and 1 win to his name. Having scored 120 points, the race-to-points ratio is already looking far more promising than Heidfeld’s. Youth is perhaps Kubica’s biggest let down, and on occasion this shone through last season when comparing the two drivers. Of course, looking at the bigger picture though, youth is very much Robert’s advantage."
I was basing my info on the time RK has been around vs Nick. Cars and teams play a part, but when other drivers like Hamilton talk about how good RK is, maybe there is room to consider he is better than you think he might be?
And just to clarify, not the taller driver, but TALL drivers. Wurz had similar trouble, and when a few mils of CG matter, having 6 inches on 10 kilos on your teammate makes a difference, excuse or not.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
HAmilton suposedly rates Sutil highly too but utterly destroyed him in F3000 winning 15 out of 20 races when they were teammates. Sometimes the drivers can be a bit complementary, but numbers dont lie... yes RK has qualified better, but then what does it say that he has less points than Nick?
And yes Nick has complained about the car & tires, but even with a car that suited RK more, Nick has outscored him, although Rk did get more points last year, but not that many more.
Overall, neither one is good enough to garner this much discussion.
ISLAMATRON wrote:And in 2007 HEidfeld had 61 points to Kubica's 39... to me big nose bob is easily the most overrated driver on the grid. And he definatly did not deserve to take JV's seat.
That's why Kubica was competing for the Drivers Champ' at least half last season then...
ISLAMATRON wrote:And in 2007 HEidfeld had 61 points to Kubica's 39... to me big nose bob is easily the most overrated driver on the grid. And he definatly did not deserve to take JV's seat.
That's why Kubica was competing for the Drivers Champ' at least half last season then...
So? JV actually won it, and also "competed"(whatever that means) the year before(rookie season)
