So what happened to the new teams?

[Richard]

How did they used to do it back in the day when there were more entries than grid spots?

imagine, bump day at the Australian GP!

More ice cream time for Kimi!

Brawn-Mercedes (Button/Senna)
Red Bull-Renault (Vettel/Webber)
Ferarri (Massa/Alonso)
Toyota (Trulli/Glock)
McLaren-Mercedes (Hamilton/Sutil)
Renault (Kovalinenn/Grosjean)
Williams-Cosworth (Heidfeld/Hulkenberg)
STR-Ferrari (Buemi/Piquet)
Force India-Mercedes (Liuzzi/Di Resta)
BMW Sauber (Rosberg/Kubica)
Prodrive-Cosworth (Davidson/Paffet)
USGPE-Cosworth (Andretti/Patrick)
LOLA-Cosworth (Sato/Di Grasi)

Im pretty confedent now thats gonna be what its gonna be, with more or less those drivers, maybes one or two may be wrong, but thats the way i see it.

How did you figure out which new team would get through? And what's your basis for the driver line up? Surely the new teams would want an existing F1 driver who knew the ropes?

--------------
Edit due to Finnish confusion!

[gridwalker]

Mika?

[Conceptual]

So, seems like already much more than 13. Who's gonna get dumped?

Well, with the FOTA submitting as a single entity, they may have well shot themselves in the foot.

If all of these new teams are approved, before the conditions of the FOTA are met, Max and Bernie will be in a position to split up FOTA so some members can join, and have 8 non-FOTA teams on the grid next season.

For intrigues sake, I hope the new entries are accepted before the conditions are met, and see what FOTA do then. Will they ask for volunteers to NOT compete, or will they all be allowed in with the 2010 published regs, but only be allowed to run 1 car?

This may turn out to be an utter mess after all!

Unless the FOTA teams are allowed to run F1 in 2010 under the 2009 regs, and the new teams run in F1.5 under the cap regs.

Double the excitement, double the exposure, double the technology and a true "Earn your spot on the 2011 grid" test.

The alternatives are getting pretty exotic at this point, but all parties have allowed it to get to this point, so the losers will have nothing to blame but themselves.

[WhiteBlue]

Unless we see a compromise in the next weeks expect to see more than three new teams accepted on 12th June.

Also worth reading: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=38040

Christian Sylt, who knows the inner working of F1 very well thinks that the FOTA entries are either invalid or binding them to the budget cap. He thinks they are most likely invalid. That was my first idea when I heard of the Domenicali interview.

The real bummer for the FOTA members could be a priveledge of Ferrari to enter without application. They have a multi year contract with the FIA and may be automatically admitted. I would like to see Briatore's face if that would actually happen.

[mcdenife]

Unless we see a compromise in the next weeks expect to see more than three new teams accepted on 12th June.

Also worth reading: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=38040

Christian Sylt, who knows the inner working of F1 very well thinks that the FOTA entries are either invalid or binding them to the budget cap. He thinks they are most likely invalid. That was my first idea when I heard of the Domenicali interview.

The real bummer for the FOTA members could be a priveledge of Ferrari to enter without application. They have a multi year contract with the FIA and may be automatically admitted. I would like to see Briatore's face if that would actually happen.

AFAIK, every team sumits an entry every year for entry into the the next season's championship. AFAWK, also, and as recently came to light, Ferrari signed a contract, committing them to F1, with FOM. We now know that Ferrari agreed to this after FOM managed to obtain concessions from the FIA granting Ferrari veto rights. Veto rights the FIA now say is void because Ferrari never excercised it (go figure). First thing Christian Sylt (CS) should know and you WB should have thought, is that the FIA cannot get involved or influence commercial aspects of F1 and signing a direct contract with Ferrari commiting them breaches this. Come on WB think, I thought you said you have a Phd. But as far as I can remember, you have always argued the FIA line on almost any and every issue regardless. Someone might begin to think "Behold, it seems we have an FIA mouth piece or muck spreader, in our mist or how, why else is Pitpass' CS championed on this site as someone 'who knows the inner working of F1 very well' when from the link provided CS appears to know nada but merely expressed an opionion based on speculation of a 'Ferrari contract' with FIA".

[freedom_honda]

I doubt any teams would pull out of F1 simply because F1 is a major marketing tool for many teams.

Ferrari: Well known for their success in F1, I can't see how they can live without F1. Plus their contract with Bernie, so they can't pull out. I think they are just bluffing at this stage.
McLaren: By their silence on the issues it is clear that they won't pull out no matter what.
BrawnGP: Now as a private team, like Williams, unlike car manufacturers, can't pull out and get back to making cars. F1 is basically the only thing they do and the only thing they can do at the moment.
RBR and STR: They don't seem to have too many problems with the 2010 reg.
FI: Same as BrawnGP
Renault and Toyota: I dont think they will pull out. Renault gets all their pubility from F1. And Toyota has so much money i think they will be in F1 no matter what.

So whatever rules the FIA decides to go with next year, the teams will eventually get over it and comply with it. One questoin though, why won't the teams accept the budget cap anyways? Its the same amount of publicity, for a LOT less money. From an economic point of view I can't see any reason against it.

[WhiteBlue]

..First thing Christian Sylt (CS) should know and you WB should have thought, is that the FIA cannot get involved or influence commercial aspects of F1 and signing a direct contract with Ferrari commiting them breaches this. Come on WB think, I thought you said you have a Phd. But as far as I can remember, you have always argued the FIA line on almost any and every issue regardless. Someone might begin to think "Behold, it seems we have an FIA mouth piece or muck spreader, in our mist or how, why else is Pitpass' CS championed on this site as someone 'who knows the inner working of F1 very well' when from the link provided CS appears to know nada but merely expressed an opionion based on speculation of a 'Ferrari contract' with FIA".

Christian Sylt is the man behind Formula Money. FM is the fact book of F1 and all the big boys talk to him including Bernie. Nothing in F1 is more important than money and over the years I have started to value CS's opinions and reports strongly. He may not be the sharpest knife in legal terms but he got the money issue locked up.

It is no secret that I regard Max Mosley as a very clever and sensible man. He may have his faults in the private department but i don't care if someone is gay or transvestite or likes to have his balls tickeled by whip. I have seen over the years that his objectives are reasonable and in line with the good of the sport. I respect people who disagree with that but in most disputes I found Mosley 90% in line with my own view.

So as an old adversary you know where we stand and we can jump into the debate right away without having to pretend. Give me your points and I will answer them.

Regarding separation of commercial and governance issues you know very well that I fully support the EU line. This is why I'm not in favour of any traditional concord agreement at all. In my view contracts should be bilateral between three parties, FIA, FOM and teams or even FOTA. In actual fact that is pretty much the situation now with those parties who have binding contracts. They all work bilaterally. This is why Max and Bernie only got back into the power play when Max kept his mouth shut about the guys who set him up.

So lets kick back and enjoy the entertainment of the next weeks. I almost thought that it was over but the way Ferrari are leading the other teams by the nose is admirable. It certainly has some Machiavellian script to it.

[KiwiF1]

Brawn-Mercedes (Button/Senna)
Red Bull-Renault (Vettel/Webber)
Ferarri (Massa/Alonso)
Toyota (Trulli/Glock)
McLaren-Mercedes (Hamilton/Sutil)
Renault (Kovalinenn/Grosjean)
Williams-Cosworth (Heidfeld/Hulkenberg)
STR-Ferrari (Buemi/Piquet)
Force India-Mercedes (Liuzzi/Di Resta)
BMW Sauber (Rosberg/Kubica)
Prodrive-Cosworth (Davidson/Paffet)
USGPE-Cosworth (Andretti/Patrick)
LOLA-Cosworth (Sato/Di Grasi)

Im pretty confedent now thats gonna be what its gonna be, with more or less those drivers, maybes one or two may be wrong, but thats the way i see it.

How did you figure out which new team would get through? And what's your basis for the driver line up? Surely the new teams would want an existing F1 driver who knew the ropes?

Indeed. There is a couple of drives in there that have been talked about as extremly likley that i just dont see happening. Not focussing on the poster of this here, rather the general consensus about some of these.

For starters, senna at Brawn. We all know ross knows how effective a one driver team is. What payoff is there possibly for replacing barrichello? He is a great developer, reliable and not TOO slow whilst not having much hope of challenging button(at least in this form). After this season ross will probably be thinking there isnt much point in bringing in a young up and coming driver when button has been performing so brilliantly. Note that i think senna has HUGE potential and could end up becoming a great driver, i just dont think its going to be with brawn.

Patrick at USGP, i for one hope against all hope she wont get the drive. She simply dosent deserve it and it is a bigger blow against women drivers than it is an achievment. She will just be there for her looks, simple fact. She is an average driver in the IRL. She will have no hope in F1 and it will be embaressing to watch.

Alonso at ferrari. Not in 2010 at least, everyone is so excited to see him there they forget kimi has a contract. Further, who knows, kimi might come on strong this season and keep his drive. He has showen some glimpses this year, if ferrari are truly back at the front now you cannot write the man off, his talent certainly isnt lacking and he could explode back into top form at any moment.

[ISLAMATRON]

If the decision was based purely on looks Patrick still should NOT get the seat.

[mcdenife]

WB wrote:

This is why Max and Bernie only got back into the power play when Max kept his mouth shut about the guys who set him up.

Not that its relevant but out of interest, you can actually back this up or is it another wild summation or deduction?

[WhiteBlue]

WB wrote:

This is why Max and Bernie only got back into the power play when Max kept his mouth shut about the guys who set him up.

Not that its relevant but out of interest, you can actually back this up or is it another wild summation or deduction?

It is a fact, isn't it? Mosley said he knew but he never told who did it. Then all the sudden he was back to being Bernie's best friend after they had had some public arguments.

[mcdenife]

WB wrote:

This is why Max and Bernie only got back into the power play when Max kept his mouth shut about the guys who set him up.

Not that its relevant but out of interest, you can actually back this up or is it another wild summation or deduction?

It is a fact, isn't it? Mosley said he knew but he never told who did it. Then all the sudden he was back to being Bernie's best friend after they had had some public arguments.

How can it be a fact when all you have done is add 2 + 2 and somehow arrived at 2506. And thats not even taking into account the fact that what Max actuall said was that 'they (whoever 'they' are) were almost certain they now know but need to be 100% sure'. Putting aside the fact that 'set up' implies being trapped into doing something he wouldn't normally do (haha!!), perhaps Max was merely 'shaking the tree' to see what fell out and he doesn't infact know (Its a tactic used in schools to make 'the naive but guilty party' own up. Which wouldnt be surprising really given Max's "village school headmaster" mentality).
Regardless, your assumptions makes no sense on any level; 'Max keeps his mouth shut and Bernie lets him back into "power play"? ...and you call this fact?

[WhiteBlue]

Set up in this context was a reference to planting a clandestine camera at a privat home and using the footage to defame the owner. I remain convinced that the NotW thugs were ably assisted by F1 insiders.

But before we go completely off topic I will point out the relevance. FOTA was founded when Max and Bernie were busy arguing some finer points of the 100 year contract. As soon as that happened the two guys made up and got back into their standard act.

There are big differences between the objectives of FIA and FOM but they both have no interest to have FOTA take over the rule making and commercial power.

[Richard]

Mika?

oops! I'm sure Mika enjoys an ice cream as much as Kimi.

I've corrected my post

[Richard]

Also worth reading: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=38040

Christian Sylt, who knows the inner working of F1 very well thinks that the FOTA entries are either invalid ....

That's hardly a bombshell. Being conditional means they aren't firm entries but offers to negotiate terms of entry. The FIA are free to accept or reject that offer ... or make a counter offer.

ps - There are few people still asking why are teams are reluctant to save money. This is not about the money, it is about technical/regulatory stability underlying the budgets. It is a challenge by FOTA against the FIA making arbitrarily changes.