Stefan GP

[WhiteBlue]

I reallly don't understand the man. It looks like he has no understanding of the reality and history of F1. Bernie always acts like a whore. You can do what you want and come back next day waving money and he will deal with you.

The FiA and the teams are an entirely different story. The FiA is a seriously political organization that has been in operation for ages and has always worked politically and not economical. In politics you cannot piss people off. You need to be polite and diplomatic and have a good feeling how the trend of the public opinion is developing. You certainly do not succeed by way of legally battling the authority of the governing body. If Stefanovic would get away with that it would be extremely strange indeed.

Next the teams. They will also dislike the attitude of a guy who thinks he can strongarm his way into their priviledged little franchise. Many of them have earned it with blood sweat and tears to exercise their voting rights and they love to stick it to outsiders. So bottom line I think that the 13th slot will rather remain empty than go to Stefanovic.

[Fil]

Bernie always acts like a whore. You can do what you want and come back next day waving money and he will deal with you.

...the 13th slot will rather remain empty than go to Stefanovic.

Link those two bits of your post and let me know if you think that makes sense..

Bernie's language is money. He obviously has incredibly strong influence at the FIA too.
He's already talking favourably about StefanGP. Do you really think he'd let the FIA leave the 13th slot empty?

Surely StefanGP are the sort of new team the FIA was wanting all along. The team is independent, has obvious financial clout & an incessant drive to compete. Why would anyone in the FIA not want them in F1?

[WhiteBlue]

Bernie's language is money. He obviously has incredibly strong influence at the FIA too.
He's already talking favourably about StefanGP. Do you really think he'd let the FIA leave the 13th slot empty?

Surely StefanGP are the sort of new team the FIA was wanting all along. The team is independent, has obvious financial clout & an incessant drive to compete. Why would anyone in the FIA not want them in F1?

It is actually quite often that Bernie does not get what he wants from the FiA. He wanted Briatore to stay in F1, he wanted Silverstone to be dropped. He wanted Spa to be shortened to 5 kms. He wanted medals and a bunch of other things. But he mainly remains quiet about the brain farts that back fire.

If there is one thing the FiA is obsessively concerned about like Bernie's obsession for money it is their authority as the governing body. They have done everything in their might to conserve and protect that. Those individuals that have challenged the right of the FiA to govern motor sport and F1 have a low statistical probability to remain on the chrismas card list. I'm not optimistic that Stefanovic will be an exception to that rule.

Just read the clauses in the sporting regulations to have an impression how an applicant can be denied entry:

13.1 Applications to compete in the Championship may be submitted to the FIA during the period 30 June to 15 July inclusive of the year prior to the year to which the application relates on an entry form...
13.4 With the exception of those whose cars have scored points in the Championship of the previous year, applicants must supply information about the size of their company, their financial position and their ability to meet their prescribed obligations.
13.5 All applications will be studied by the FIA and accepted or rejected, subject to the provisions of The 2009 Concorde Agreement.....
13.7 If in the opinion of the F1 Commission a competitor fails to operate his team in a manner compatible with the standards of the Championship or in any way brings the Championship into disrepute, the FIA may exclude such competitor from the Championship forthwith.

Stefanovic hasn't even fulfilled § 13.1 of a regular application. Instead he has complained to the European Comission against the FiA.

The above regulation is actually the toned down version which applies since the 2009 Concord. In this version the teams through the F1 commission have rights to co govern the access again. Prior to the 2009 concord the FiA had total discretion who was awarded an entry and who was not.

Also observe clause 13.7. The FiA can --- can every applicant at the drop of a hat. Complaining according to the FiA understanding is "bringing the Championship in disrepute" big time.

[WhiteBlue]

Apparently Jean Todt gave a lengthy interview to Gazetta dello Sport. Some stuff from that appeared translated in Saward's blog.

The other key point that Todt makes is that despite all the chat that is coming out of the Formula One offices about the wonders of Stefan GP, it is not down to the promoter to decide whether the Serbians will be given an entry. It is the role of the FIA.

So it really doesn't look like a done deal.

[mcdenife]

Its funny how you insist on fact only when it suits or an argument is not going your way but use dodgy summations/speculation presented as facts for all other instances.

It is actually quite often that Bernie does not get what he wants from the FiA.He wanted Briatore to stay in F1

.
Yet he voted for him to be banned. (can see how that is wanting him to stay).

he wanted Silverstone to be dropped

Everyone and their dog knew exactly what Bernie wanted. (psst....silverstone).

He wanted Spa to be shortened to 5 kms. He wanted medals and a bunch of other things

Opinion (or Suggestions) and actually wanting something are 2 different things dont you think?

Stefanovic hasn't even fulfilled § 13.1 of a regular application.

In which case neither did sauber yet they are in.

As with Flavio, Bernie and stefanovic have something in common...you dont like em (understandable to some extent with the first 2). It is therefore impossible to have a rational discussion/debate about anything involving them.

The FIA's golden egg is F1. The teams on their own would find it very difficult (possible yes. and they missed a great chance last year) to form their own series. The teams and Bernie (FOM) are a diffent matter. The FIA needs FOM more than vice versa. If you can understand that the you can perhaps begin to understand just how important and powerful Bernie is to the FIA.
If a 13th grid spot opened and Bernie wanted it, FIA will not reject the application despite anything Toad might say.

[meves]

FIA Sporting Regs

13.1 Applications to compete in the Championship may be submitted to the FIA during the period 30 June to 15 July inclusive of the year prior to the year to which the application relates on an entry form as set out in Appendix 2 hereto accompanied by an undertaking to pay the entry fee of €309,000 (three hundred and nine thousand Euros) (as may be amended in accordance with The 2009 Concorde Agreement) to the FIA no later than 1 November of the year prior to the year to which the application relates. Applications at other times will only be considered if a place is available and on payment of a late entry fee to be fixed by the FIA. Entry forms will be made available by the FIA who will notify the applicant of the result of the application within thirty days of its receipt. Successful applicants are automatically entered in all Events of the Championship and will be the only competitors at Events.

You'll see below that they can pay a late fee and enter if there is space on the grid, so they have every chance of getting in IF one of the other 2 teams that are on the cusp fail!

[WhiteBlue]

Anyway, the shipment to Bahrain appears to be a useless expense.

Its funny how you insist on fact only when it suits or an argument is not going your way but use dodgy summations/speculation presented as facts for all other instances.

It is actually quite often that Bernie does not get what he wants from the FiA. He wanted Briatore to stay in F1.

Yet he voted for him to be banned. (can see how that is wanting him to stay)

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/02/ ... /#comments

Your assertion is contradicted by a more trustworthy source. Isn't that making you the dodgy/speculating guy?

He makes it quite clear in the interview that just because the court ruled against the FIA does not make Briatore any less guilty of what happened in Singapore in 2008. And quite right too. The sport can live without Briatore and his ethics (although I hesitate to use the two words in the same sentence). Todt pointed out that the evidence was clear and that they were so obvious that Pat Symonds even put out an apology to the world. A fair point. We don’t apologise for things we do not do. It is not in human nature. He also pointed out that only one member of the Council voted against the punishment decided. That was Bernie Ecclestone, Briatore’s longtime ally and a man who appreciated that Flavio had some interesting ideas about the way that F1 should be promoted.

Todt making a public statement claiming the decision right against Bernie's lobbying is a strong show of displeasure.

In the final version of the Concorde Agreement it's written that a team may be absent for three races. But if a team can't go on, it's not a given that another team comes in. It's up to the FIA to decide who has the requisites.

=D> =D>

Autosport is quoting Todt with these words from the Gazetta. We shall leave it in the FiA's able hands then.

[myurr]

WhiteBlue - you're not Max in disguise are you? Your agenda seems to align itself perfectly with whatever drivel comes out of the FIA.

[WhiteBlue]

WhiteBlue - you're not Max in disguise are you? Your agenda seems to align itself perfectly with whatever drivel comes out of the FIA.

I'm not. I just think that Max Mosley's FiA policies were sensible, visionary and absolutely the right thing to do many more often than not. Jean Todt appears to be spot on in some questions as well. I do like that.

[myurr]

WhiteBlue - you're not Max in disguise are you? Your agenda seems to align itself perfectly with whatever drivel comes out of the FIA.

I'm not. I just think that Max Mosley's FiA policies were sensible, visionary and absolutely the right thing to do many more often than not. Jean Todt appears to be spot on in some questions as well. I do like that.

Err... errm.... okay...

Think I'm going to have to leave that one right there as our views appear to be diametrically opposed. I think that Max was a misguided, deluded, tin-pot dictator who did more to politicise and ruin F1, and cheapen, pervert and corrupt the FIA, than any other individual in the history of the sport.

He did have some good points and occasionally changed things for the better, but his petty interference and egotistical manipulation vastly overshadowed any achievements. In my humble opinion.

[segedunum]

I'm not. I just think that Max Mosley's FiA policies were sensible, visionary and absolutely the right thing to do many more often than not.

Max blew where the wind took him and knee-jerked from one bright idea to another. If you're wanting to promote overtaking then we could all see that grooved tyres were a stupid idea, but nevertheless, we got them. He also flat-out told Frank Williams that his team business model was out of date when manufacturers were coming into the sport to run teams. It looks as if Williams is now the visionary having resisted the overtures of manufacturers and having not gone the way that Sauber went.

Any decent decisions Max and the FIA may have made under his tenure were usually after years over shooting in the dark and years of criticism from others.

[Scotracer]

I'm not. I just think that Max Mosley's FiA policies were sensible, visionary and absolutely the right thing to do many more often than not.

Max blew where the wind took him and knee-jerked from one bright idea to another. If you're wanting to promote overtaking then we could all see that grooved tyres were a stupid idea, but nevertheless, we got them. He also flat-out told Frank Williams that his team business model was out of date when manufacturers were coming into the sport to run teams. It looks as if Williams is now the visionary having resisted the overtures of manufacturers and having not gone the way that Sauber went.

Any decent decisions Max and the FIA may have made under his tenure were usually after years over shooting in the dark and years of criticism from others.

Very well said.

[segedunum]

Anyway, the shipment to Bahrain appears to be a useless expense.

I wouldn't have thought so. If USF1 and Campos are missing the first three races of the season, as appears likely, then the chances increase dramatically that they simply won't make it and establish themselves in Formula One. It's that simple. StefanGP are then well placed to take one of those places and it's in everyone's intersts that at least one of those slots is taken on what appears to be a long-term basis. The provision is in the regulations for that to happen, so no, it isn't a useless expense at all.

At the moment, StefanGP's organisation looks to be in far better shape than either USF1 or Campos. Utilising an existing teams chassis and design was the right thing to do (the fact that USF1 and Campos started too early is beside the point) and they appear to have secured some finance that looks marginally more secure than rifling round the back of some average Argentinian driver's sofa.

[mcdenife]

Your assertion is contradicted by a more trustworthy source. Isn't that making you the dodgy/speculating guy?

Fair point. But it was not speculation, but an assumption, based on BE's comment (something to the effect that the punishment was harsh but he(BE) is just as guilty) that he had no choice but to vote for the ban.

Autosport is quoting Todt with these words from the Gazetta. We shall leave it in the FiA's able hands then.

My points stand.

[WhiteBlue]

Yeah, according to what I read it is Serbian tax payer's money that bolsters Stefanovic's coffers lately. At least that is Bernie's claim. Link

They are going to take over Toyota completely. The team and motorhomes. They have got the money from the government, I've spoken to the prime minister.

It remains to be seen if the federation accepts Stefanovic's claim that having any team is better than not having a 12th or 13th team.

The prospect of USF1 or Campos making it to the grid is more enticing to me than seeing a Serbian state propaganda show pretend with the remains of Toyota's ludicrous money wasting machine.