Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously thought?

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zeph
zeph
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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The testing ban has made it difficult for all, but perhaps more so for Schu, given that he has been out of the loop for so long.
I guess they'll give him another season, but if he doesn't deliver then, it would be foolish to keep him.
Last edited by zeph on 16 Aug 2010, 13:08, edited 1 time in total.

segedunum
segedunum
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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I would love to have seen him given a one race ban with Heidfeld coming in. Then we could really compare.

zeph
zeph
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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I never liked Schu, and it is not without glee that I see him struggle this year. But I respect him for coming back, starting over from scratch and risking his reputation, all for the love of racing.

jamsbong
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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Shumi is driving Button's car not his and his retirement meant he has to start from scratch. With testing banned, it means that all drivers who has been around last year have more advantages than him.

Another thing about his comeback is that he has helped a lot of people! The F1 business, younger driver been given the privilege to race with him, more media stuff to report about, etcs...

So what does he get in return? He gets criticism like this thread, Barrichello saying nasties about him, lots of media bashing, and so on.

I'll say this, Michael is a brave man to comeback the way he did and I believe what Ross Brawn said "the harder it is to win, the sweeter than victory will be". I believe he will win again! Go Michael!

enkidu
enkidu
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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jamsbong wrote:Shumi is driving Button's car not his and his retirement meant he has to start from scratch. With testing banned, it means that all drivers who has been around last year have more advantages than him.

Another thing about his comeback is that he has helped a lot of people! The F1 business, younger driver been given the privilege to race with him, more media stuff to report about, etcs...

So what does he get in return? He gets criticism like this thread, Barrichello saying nasties about him, lots of media bashing, and so on.

I'll say this, Michael is a brave man to comeback the way he did and I believe what Ross Brawn said "the harder it is to win, the sweeter than victory will be". I believe he will win again! Go Michael!

Same can be said for the Mclaren, its Hamiltons car but Button is only 10 points apart from him, lets face it, Michael is past it and can no longer race against the younger drivers... I may eat my words next year but lets see him beat his team mate first eh?

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ringo
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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This talk of Button's car holds no weight.
I know Button said it, but i don't think he was serious. How can a car be made for him and he never spun a wheel in it.
We should know by now, tailor made cars are just excuses for when one driver does bad and the other does well.
Rosberg drives nothing like Button and he has 3 podiums from that W01.
For Sure!!

PNSD
PNSD
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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This guy still racing?

I almost forgot he was on the grid ;-)!

edit - Apparently theres some new kids in town, by the names of Vettel and Hamilton?

zeph
zeph
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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Schu still believes that it will all work out, apparently:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85983

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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ringo wrote:This talk of Button's car holds no weight.
I know Button said it, but i don't think he was serious. How can a car be made for him and he never spun a wheel in it.
We should know by now, tailor made cars are just excuses for when one driver does bad and the other does well.
Rosberg drives nothing like Button and he has 3 podiums from that W01.
may I remind you kindly of some Jean Alesi and GerhardBerger who came to Benetton both with wins under their belts TO the winners of the last two championships with Mr.Schu and they found the thing impossible to drive to the limit?
Both sudffered severe crashes trying to extract time of it and only after benettons techies finally realised they only had a car to suit Schumacher they started to make progress and moved forward ..It took Gerhard 3 years to win again..

also Button had years when he saw no land compared to ..who was that ,Ralf ,Fisi?

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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marcush. wrote:
ringo wrote:This talk of Button's car holds no weight.
I know Button said it, but i don't think he was serious. How can a car be made for him and he never spun a wheel in it.
We should know by now, tailor made cars are just excuses for when one driver does bad and the other does well.
Rosberg drives nothing like Button and he has 3 podiums from that W01.
may I remind you kindly of some Jean Alesi and GerhardBerger who came to Benetton both with wins under their belts TO the winners of the last two championships with Mr.Schu and they found the thing impossible to drive to the limit?
Both sudffered severe crashes trying to extract time of it and only after benettons techies finally realised they only had a car to suit Schumacher they started to make progress and moved forward ..It took Gerhard 3 years to win again..

also Button had years when he saw no land compared to ..who was that ,Ralf ,Fisi?
I also recall how difficult it was for Fisi to adapt to his new Ferrari at the end of last season, so these are examples of where competent and proven Formula One drivers have had difficulty in adapting to a car design. This also supports the theory that a car can be designed for one specific driver, and not be as suitable for his teammate (example, McLaren).

When it comes to Michael Schumacher and his return to racing, I try to examine this entire scenario with the big picture in mind. Without a doubt, Mercedes are heavily involved in motorsport. After many years supporting other teams, they took the plunge and bought their own team. These recent actions support the notion that Mercedes intend to cash racing success in Formula One into prestige and cachet for their road cars. Ferrari reaped huge chunks of public opinion as a result of their glory years of 2000-2005.

So Mercedes are in for the long haul, they intend to build a team that hopefully can carry them to the same kinds of success as Ferrari enjoyed. There are smart people running Mercedes, and they know you just don't build a genuine contender overnight, and that it isn't easy.

In 2009 this same team was named "Brawn", and they won the championship. So far, so good. But this was a team lacking in the huge resouces that Ferrari and McLaren enjoy. Considering that Brawn didn't lock up the titles until near the end of the season, it's reasonable to assume Brawn dedicated as much resources as possible towards capturing that title. Meanwhile, both Ferrari and Red Bull had given up on their '09 designs are were already investing in the 2010 car. So when you don't dedicate as much time and money as others towards the next year's car, it probably won't be as quick. Not that it's a dog, it just doesn't have the thousands of hours of fine-tuning and tweaking of design as others.

So that's what Mercedes had when they purchased Brawn, a decent team and a car that probably wasn't going to be as good as the front-runners. That's OK, because Mercedes now had the nucleus of a new team that would eventually lead them to glory. Then of course, along comes Schumacher and he comes out of retirement.

Some people perceive a driver as just someone who jumps into the car, operates the controls, and goes fast. For myself, that's only the beginning, and I measure a driver by many other factors. And Michael Schumacher brings an impressive array of talents to his new team. On two different occasions during his career he has been part of the cycle of taking a so-so team into a powerhouse that won titles. He did it with Benetton, and he did it with Ferrari. That kind of experience is invaluable in building a new powerhouse team. For example, when Michael first went to Ferrari, it was like living in a Marx brothers movie, it was such a farce. But once things got sorted out, Ferrari had been transformed into an efficient machine that ruthlessly mowed anyone aside and won races and titles. We didn't see many mistakes, the team operated with great precision and purpose. And behind the scenes, Michael was part of that process, identifying problems, making suggestions, all in the end benefitting his team.

And that's my perception of Michael Schumacher's role within the Mercedes team. They intend to build a powerhouse Formula One team, but first and foremost, Mercedes have to take a decent team, identify required changes, stabilize the team in 2010, and build onwards past that point. To expect wins in 2010 is a bit unrealistic considering the car that Mercedes inherited in 2010, and to expect a title in 2011 is just too much. But it takes time to construct a team that continually runs near the front, Mercedes know that, and I hope some of their fans can understand too.

I have watched Schumacher since his first foray into Formula One. He isn't as quick as when he was in Benetton, the man is succumbing to the ageing process. Behavior-wise, he hasn't changed, he still conducts himself in the same way as before. And when you seriously ask yourself if he's adaptable, just examine his situation at present within his team. Both drivers are new to the Mercedes, yet Rosberg is generally beating the snot out of Schumacher, posting quicker times almost every time, be it in practice, or qualifying, or the race.

Mercedes hired Schumacher based on what he was, and Michael is not going to change or adapt, because he doesn't have to.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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747heavy
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010, 21:45

Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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fair assessment Dave (IMHO)

Sure they are in the spotlight and the combination of the current WCC team and a 7xWDC have raised the expectation.
The press, will most likely pick on the "failures" and talk them down, but I still think it´s a sensible concept in the long run.
The question is, if they are given enough "public credit" to make it work.
If they do, then they will have the stuff legends are made from, the most successful German F1 driver in one of Germany´s most prestigous brands.
Also keeping in mind, that Schumacher started out as a Mercedes junior in their Group C project
back in the late 80´s initiated by Jochen Neerpasch.
So there is a bit of "the lost son finally returns" involved here as well.
Good luck on their way - it´s a good story if it works out, and worth the risk. (IMO)
Last edited by 747heavy on 17 Aug 2010, 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
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DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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Heck, I'm not ruling him out, it's just that the expectations need to be realistic.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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ringo
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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marcush. wrote:
ringo wrote:This talk of Button's car holds no weight.
I know Button said it, but i don't think he was serious. How can a car be made for him and he never spun a wheel in it.
We should know by now, tailor made cars are just excuses for when one driver does bad and the other does well.
Rosberg drives nothing like Button and he has 3 podiums from that W01.
may I remind you kindly of some Jean Alesi and GerhardBerger who came to Benetton both with wins under their belts TO the winners of the last two championships with Mr.Schu and they found the thing impossible to drive to the limit?
Both sudffered severe crashes trying to extract time of it and only after benettons techies finally realised they only had a car to suit Schumacher they started to make progress and moved forward ..It took Gerhard 3 years to win again..

also Button had years when he saw no land compared to ..who was that ,Ralf ,Fisi?
I believe cars are built not with the intention to suit a driver, but are built in a way that one driver may be more comfortable driving it.
The W01 cannot be built for Button, he never drove it, neither was the Brawn built to his style so there can be no follow up work to be placed in the W01. Barichello was as comfortable in the Brawn as Button was.
I just think Nico is a top class driver that is simply getting more out of what he was given than shuchacher can.
I think Nico would whoop Button in "his car" too.
For Sure!!

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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if that was reality..for what reason drivers would have different setups in one team on the same track?
thats simply put a clear indicator that drivers need to have the car adapted to extract the maximum out of what is there in terms of potential.

If you know your driver and this is obvious after those x years button is driving for BAR,Honda,Brawn..you are going to simply converge towards designs suiting his stile of driving.Why should you do something that does not suit him only to adapt and modify the car afterwords year after year..
Button has this unique stile very smooth and slowhand..not to be found with any other driver on the grid ...and mind you it took Brawn half a season to adapt the BGP01 to Barrichellos liking and voila he could win and be as quick or even quicker than Button from then on..
So Barrichello is also not adaptable...but who is ,or better said does adaptable make you world champion ?

lets face the truth ,no alonso,no Hamilton nobody would have won in the WO1 and possibly noone would have scored more points in it then Rosberg .does this make him champ material?Not yet.

The BIG difference to most racing series in F1 is the fact that 400+ guys are working flatout to prepare 2cars competing every other weekend.Lets face it the driver who can make those 400+ work for his aim (winning the title)is one key to sustained success.
very rarely a driver jumps into the car ,finds himself in a combo fully competitive and drives home with the trophy.
Even less often a driver is joining a team with second best equipment and still drives home with the trophy...

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ringo
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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All they did was change the brakes for Barichello.

Even if the engineers know what Button likes in a car, they cannot quantify something so subjective. You have so many departments in an F1 team making next year's car. You simply cannot go off something not quantifiable and supposedly synchonize all those departmets into making the Button mobile.
It's not possible. The focus is making a neutrally balanced car that's fast.

Button never had a car made for him, that would not allow brawn to win both titles.
He just wanted to feel important when he said that :lol: . The only thing the probably adapted for him is probably the cockpit size and a default steering wheel design.

Anyway the real focus is Rosberg, his relative performance in the same car is all that matters, be it made for barichello or Button, both nico and Micheal wont be at home right away. In fact Nico had more problems fitting his seat if we look back on winter testing.
Micheal should not have allowed Nico to whoop him. The points difference is staggering. Nico also had closer calls at actually winning races than Micheal.
Remember china; was it? Nico could have won that race if he didn't slide of on the last turn. Nico was also exceptional in the rain.
I think Micheal will do better next year, but i think that will have to do more with the car being to his liking (not being made for him, but suited to him), becuase he simply has to make things adapt to him, not the other way around.
For Sure!!