Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously thought?

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LionKing
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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The amount of ignorant and uninformed comments in this forum is really unbelievable :)))

How can one be earn the rain master title by being averagely talented??? Rain favors the better driver.

The guy came second on a race using fifth gear only and he is not adaptable???

How can one's most successful race tracks be the so called driver tracks (Suzuka, Spa, Imola, Monaco, etc) and yet be referred with sentences "well he was not so talented however/but..."

"He never got a good teammate." What about the Massa that Raikkonen could not beat? The Rubens that Jenson barely beat at the age of 37 partly due to a much better start to the season. Irvine that could compete with a driver of Hakkinen's caliber and make it a WDC race. If my memory serving me that year there was a race where Schumacher let Irvine pass twice in the same race to help him...He was that much better than him...

Schumacher was leading Senna in 1994 before Aryton passes away in his unfortunate accident.

Finally to judge his talent and his accomplishments but looking at how well he does at the age of 41 after 3 full year break is just plain stupid......Something like looking at Jordan's last years (at the age of 38-40) at Wizards and then saying that "he was not much talented but he practiced a lot". "He was just a good jump shooter" "It was the Phil Jackson and great Bulls team with center Luc Longley", "The competition was not that that good when he was around" .

David Coulthard practiced almost 15 years in Adrian Newey designed cars. What good did he achieve in that period?

Giblet
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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And all that time, he had mad testing under his belt, and now, he doesn't, and has failed to 'adapt' to the car like his younger teammate was able to.

Nobody is saying MS wasn't talented, but you must admit, he doesn't look very good now, and other than age, his teammate has no advantages over him that can explain his lack of speed.

Michael's talent is obvious, but I think and most seem to agree, that his 'greatness' might have come from testing and tweaking a car and team to him.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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Shrieker
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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Naaah, he's just an old man. Let him be. He's not what he used to be. Will happen to all of us one day if we're lucky enough to live more.
Last edited by Shrieker on 05 Aug 2010, 02:50, edited 3 times in total.
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747heavy
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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the phrase "talent is overrated" comes to mind

Sorry I know I go a bit OT, maybe start a new thread

What makes a good/great racing driver?

is the talent (god given gift) vs. hard worker/ train/test debate
what is more important?
is a good driver born or made?
can you lose talent? (maybe with age)
what metrics to use for defining a "good/fast" driver?
How you gauge driver performace vs. car performance? etc.

M.S. absolute performance is a bit below par this year, I agree.
(and N.R. is doing a "better job" at the moment, all things considered)
On the other hand, he would be the highest place rooky.
So how much is down to (perhaps too great) expectations?
How do we know, that N.R. is the more adaptable driver, maybe he would be crap in a 2002 Ferrari or in a 2010 McLaren.
Is Hamilton a more adaptable driver then Button, because he is faster in the 2010 McLaren.
Where M.S. team mates even less adaptable at the time, because they could not beat him?
How do we define adaptable driver?

Please I don´t want to discuss this from a die hard fan (fanboy) perspective.
I´m not saying that M.S. is god and N.R. is crap or vis versa.
For all we know, N.R. could be a 10x WDC in the future, so could L.H. or maybe even M.S.

What do we use as objective metrics for our assessments?
Last edited by 747heavy on 07 Aug 2010, 17:17, edited 1 time in total.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
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marcush.
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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+1 747h..

no driver in f1 is crap .

what i find interesting is how many yesterdays men grab the chance to hit out at Schumacher,the worst example for sure is Coulthard who is completely useless in finding the line in DTM(staying away 1m from the wall the cracks brush lap after lap) but has no issues to bash Schumacher who is at least close to his teammate most of the time.If anyone is disgracing himself than it is him.

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ringo
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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More adaptable is not necessarily more talented. But sometimes talent makes it easier to adapt.

Shumacher is like this:
Image
It can drive, and it can drive very well, very fast too, even in fifht gear alone. :lol:
He runs into problems when presented with this to drive:
Image
Whereas Alonso and Hamilton are like this:
Image
New environment, the philips screw, same task of driving it, and are adaptable to perform on the same level because the talent is there.
However Shumacher cannot drive in this environment; as good and talented as he is driving the other one, and all the feats he accomplished in the past. He simply was in a comfortable position, well prepared and in the best environment.

His talent is not in question; it's his ability to adjust and perform at the same level. Mercedes pulled him out of his little cozy ferrari kingdom, and put him on equal grounds with commoners like Nico and Barichello.
For Sure!!

LionKing
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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I don't know whether majority of the people agrees with that or not but considering people elected Bush... and twice, that is not a proof or supporting evidence. I prefer facts to random unsubstantiated theories.Working hard is a requirement for success in pretty much anything. Some practice his serve, some his shoot after regular team practice.

If testing was the reason drivers like Luca Badoer, Marc Gene, De La Rosa would have been any good. Schumacher in his first race qualified 7th in Spa. He has never raced in that track before. He out-qualified his veteran teammate. But maybe you guys might be right considering he tested the circuit one lap with a bicycle... That was a sign of brilliance and sign of things to come... He was a double champion at the end of his fourth full season in F1, before joining Ferrari and having access to private track. In 2005 he was 3rd in the championship standings on those awful Brigdestone rubber (or wood). For comparison Montoya in a ultra fast McLaren with Michelin's was 4th. His (former) last race in Brasil 2006 was epic.

Unfortunately for him there is not much that is good about W01 car this reason. It suffers multiple organ failure. Forget about handling issues, DF levels I would be glad if they can at least reduce their drag for Spa and Monza and be somewhat strong at one track in whole season.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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It is great that you brought up test drivers, especially De La Rosa.

Pedro Dela Rosa
39 years old
He Last drove competitively in 2006(?)

He has adapted OK in my view. No real complaints from him.
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LionKing
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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My point was that he (Pedro) did not achieve anything in his career though he had extensive testing miles under his belt (and he was testing for McLaren)

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747heavy
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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@ Ringo

good analogy

so where would this leave Alonso/Kubica in this case?

Image

:wink:

as "useless" as M.S. ?
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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ringo
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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They can manage.
Image
didn't notice the hex hole in the handle did you? :mrgreen:

Shumacher can't drive fast without traction control. He's too ashamed to say it.
Rubens is the better senior driver at the moment. He'll pass out shumi on points in no time.
For Sure!!

xpensive
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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With the above anology, drivers like Mario Andretti, Graham Hill, Jim Clark and Chris Amon were complete toolboxes.
F1, F2, Indianapolis an Le Mans, you name it they drove it.

But Schumacher's lack of speed remains a mystery, the solitary years at Ferrari is difficult to judge, but his time with Benetton was mercurial, beating a Williams the way he did was amazing. Now this magic seems all gone, Mario Andretti made a comeback in 1982 at thew age of 42, firmly placing the 800 Hp Ferrari he never seen before on pole at Monza.

"If you can drive you can drive" he said.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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talent needs to be fed constantly and if you don´t do that it evaporates.you surely know how it´s done but things don´´t come as natural as they used to ,making it even more frustrating.
Andreti was not semi retired at that time his skills were constantly honed in Champcar back then ,so it´s not comparable,and of course that Ferrari was the class of the field.
and Villeneuve,Pironi,Tambay all won in this car ...unfortunatelly it ended two careers as well ,killing Gilles and injuring pironi severely..

DLR has not set the world on fire at Sauber he has no edge on a real rookie Kobayashi
and he surely was driving a lot till 2009 ,so bsically he was 1 year out of driving .

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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Hopping into the monster-turbo Ferrari in 1982 the way that Mario did, qualifying on pole and taking the car to third despite a failing throttle linkage was indeed special. The tifosi went mad when he made those Saturday-night donuts after qualifying, electrifying.

Why don't we see such emotions surrounding Schumacher?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

nipo
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Re: Michael Schumacher not as adaptable as previously though

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I cannot explain why he's slow. But he is. He's like Barrichello in the old days when the quicker teammate is much further up the order while he's behaving like a backmarker.

One alarming fact is that he is defenseless against any car quicker than him. Other drivers seem to be able to mount a much more determined defense, even before eventually losing position. He just looks helpless during every challenge.

Brawn made comments about Michael's adaptability before. He mentioned MS as being able to hide a cars inadequacies by driving around them. I tend to believe that given Brawn has been working with him extensively for many years.

That leaves two explanations - 3 years of vacation and lack of testing. He has lost some of his racecraft and he needs ample training and preparation to get back to his previous levels. Question is whether he'll be able to do that again.

Anyway, it is sad.