Do you want Refueling back?

[andartop]

Admittedly, there have been occasions where refuelling actually contributed to more exciting racing. And some of the arguments for refuelling are valid.

However, come to think of it, it's difficult to justify refuelling from a racing purist's perspective. It has always been nothing more than a gimmick (except in endurance races!), or even worse, an excuse for TV stations to broadcast ads. We've all been there: as soon as the leading cars completed their pit stops the commentators would announce a break, failing to admit that nothing exciting was expected to occur until the next round of pit stops! With that in mind, it is actually good that drivers now know they have to pit straight away as soon as their closest rival pits just to maintain their position: the overtaking has to be done on track.

I think the only occasion where refuelling should be allowed in F1 would have to be right after qualifying is finished!

[hollus]

Giblet, I don't think a mandatory (high) fuel load would do much to create flat out racing. The teams would devise a special fuel burning engine map, burn as much as they can early to make the car light, and still go into fuel saving mode at the end. IMHO.

[Giblet]

Giblet, I don't think a mandatory (high) fuel load would do much to create flat out racing. The teams would devise a special fuel burning engine map, burn as much as they can early to make the car light, and still go into fuel saving mode at the end. IMHO.

This is true, but this could easily be enforced with the weigh bridge and standard ECUs. Let the teams play around a bit, but a similar rule to the 107% rule with weight of fuel could be added.

A fuel burning map would prove some engine benefits like power and cooling, but would also put the team at risk of being under weight at the end of the race.

The tools are already in place to enforce this.

While my ideas may be convoluted at times, I would like to see the fuel differential taken away in it's entirety, to put the racing back on the track and out of the pits. The only advantage I want to see from the pits is tire management strategies and pit stop timing.

[Caito]

I remember I got confused with refuelling. someone who was 7th was actually first because all others had to pit and.. bleh.

Not a matter of safety to me. It could be made as safe or dangerous as you like.

I want to see cars racing, and not that much strategy. If we want strategy we can play teg.

[ringo]

I hate to think about how many times I found myself with my head in my hands during the years of Ferrari domination : there were so many occasions where Schumacher was running in 2nd during an early stint, only to put in a 2 or 3 rapid burst to take the lead during the pit stop phase.

After that happened, the rest of the race was utterly predictable and I just sat through it out of sheer bloody mindedness. If Schumacher had to make all of those passes on track then I would have probably been more of a fan

Personally, I am for making the tyres bigger, stickier and less durable. Give the drivers more mechanical grip, but with a limited lifespan. It would shake up the order a lot more, but give the drivers the ability to make passes when needed. I think that would be a recipe for much more entertainment than refuelling can provide.

I remember those days, but remember the ferrari was superior so even without refueling Shumacher would still lead from the front.
That tactic is still being used nowadays anyway. Button uses it a lot, so does Brawn with nico and shumacher. The faster car will always have the upper hand either pitting first or pitting last.
All lack of refueling has done is give the illusion what shucher did is not being used, when in fact it's now: stay out and run fast when the others are in the pits, or pit first then run fast while others are in the pits.
Any strategy can work with the faster car and tyre combination.
So really lack of refueling hasn't solved anything entertainment wise.
Take brasil for instance this year. We all saw the cars bunched up after the SC, though the rules "force the cars to overtake" we did not see one exciting overtake in that gaggle of cars.
Lack of refueling does nothing for overtaking, it only makes the race look sedated and monotonous. Look on Webber tailing Vettel the whole race as well. Refueling was an event that could throw in some tactics or maybe an error. Brasil was better with refueling 2 previous races.

There is no substantial evidence that taking away refueling will make the drivers more racier. They will rather wait for tyres to go off or one car to run into problems before they go for an overtake. The race is allowed to settle too much.
Refueling kept the drivers on their toes since it sets the race as a sprint and not a walkathon. You bang in your laps and overtake if someone is slowing you up for you next scheduled stop.

[mep]

I remember I got confused with refuelling. someone who was 7th was actually first because all others had to pit and.. bleh.

Not a matter of safety to me. It could be made as safe or dangerous as you like.

I want to see cars racing, and not that much strategy. If we want strategy we can play teg.

At least admit that you dont want refueling because you did not understand it.
No problem I think many others who are gainst refueling also never understood what is going on.

[Scorpaguy]

A lot of valid points can be made re re-fueling strategies vs. max fuel load racing...personal preference really. I just hate the safety-at-all-cost mentality that pervades everything. Heck we could limit speeds via peddle cars and solve the issue entirely. If we insist on removing all risks...we will have no racing.

I liked refueling for the strategy and like the pit action (NASCAR tendencies i guess). I certainly do not want to see pit crews injured....but injuries and deaths occur in almost all sports. I think it can be made safer...and i would enjoy the aspect. Just my 2 cents.

[flynfrog]

I liked it at least we had a race to a few pit stops instead of one like we have now.

I would like to see it come back with tires that wear our before a fuel stop

[Caito]

I remember I got confused with refuelling. someone who was 7th was actually first because all others had to pit and.. bleh.

Not a matter of safety to me. It could be made as safe or dangerous as you like.

I want to see cars racing, and not that much strategy. If we want strategy we can play teg.

At least admit that you dont want refueling because you did not understand it.
No problem I think many others who are gainst refueling also never understood what is going on.

Of course, it makes me think too much. I want crude on track racing. The team has already too many variables in their hands. They build the car, set it up, etc. Even decide(mostly) when to change the tires. Let the driver do his part. It was a drivers race once, then it became a cars race. Then more of a team-car-driver. I just like(during the ongoing of the race) more % to the driver part.

Just my personal opinion, nothing more.

Though I agree refuelling shuffles the race, it's not the way I like it.

[mep]

Guys have you realised yet that this years championship can be decided after the qualy today?
When Webber is unable to get a starting position on the front he has very few chances to win the following race because there is almost no way to overtake on track.
This can't be the the thing you guys want to see as racing.

[segedunum]

What makes you think he'd have a chance with refuelling? We saw many times that short-filling and reacting to opponents was used as a way for cars to stay ahead rather than overtaking. With published fuel weights everyone would also know when Webber was stopping and Ferrari would just react to that.

Where do people get these ludicrous ideas from?

[andrew]

There was a lack of on-track overtaking with refueling and there is a lack of on-track overtaking without overtaking. No real difference has been made.

[komninosm]

I remember I got confused with refuelling. someone who was 7th was actually first because all others had to pit and.. bleh.

Not a matter of safety to me. It could be made as safe or dangerous as you like.

I want to see cars racing, and not that much strategy. If we want strategy we can play teg.

Maybe you'd like to see no pit-stops at all then? Race to the finish, one fuel tank, one set of tires. I don't particularly mind that. But it shouldn't be enforced. Every team must decide what is the fastest way for them to make the 305 km journey.
Like when refuelling was first "invented" in F1, only one team used it. If you can change tires in the middle of the race and go faster enough to make up for the 25 seconds a pit-stop sets you back then there should be no rule preventing you from doing just that imo.
I think rule restrictions should concentrate instead on "catching" flexi-wings, F-ducts, double diffusers and that sort of stuff. Not limit wholesome strategies.

[mep]

What makes you think he'd have a chance with refuelling? We saw many times that short-filling and reacting to opponents was used as a way for cars to stay ahead rather than overtaking. With published fuel weights everyone would also know when Webber was stopping and Ferrari would just react to that.

Where do people get these ludicrous ideas from?

The difference is that with refueling there is a way to pass a car in front of you especially when it is much slower than yours. Without refueling there is no chance because overtaking on track is impossible.
With refueling you have many options to get a few free laps where you can use your car speed and get in front.
Seems like you have not seen Hungary race.
Redbull was 1second quicker a lap but no chance for Vettel to pass Alonso.
With refueling passing Alonso would have been an easy exercise as just one single free lap decides the race.
You should better think more about race strategies than calling other people’s comments ludicrous.

[ringo]

To add to that is abu dhabi.
We had cars following other cars for 40 laps. No opportunity to pass.
With refueling the cars will be setup for sprinting, and also the tyres will be pushed to the limit for those on 2 stoppers. Those with more stops will push to overtake those on the 1 stopper.
We can compare any race this year with last year's and minus the safety car moments, and we'll see that most of the time the pitstops create opportunities for the cars to mix a little more.

In abu dhabi for instance, Alonso on a 2 stopper sprint to the finish would have zero issues following slower cars, trundling around.
Refueling leaves more options and doesn't put a team in a hole if they make 1 little mistake, such as how long a tyre will grain on an ever changing track.
These 2010 regulations are spoiling the racing and they break up potential showdowns with the faster cars.