Do you want Refueling back?

[komninosm]

I think the last race made people vote for bringing back refuelling :p
It was 52% No and now it's 52% Yes.
Every single car in this boring last race was on 1 stop. Without the extra speed gained from lighter fuel load, pitting more than once is even harder to make up for.
So let's recap:
Safety is non-issue. It can be made safe (lower extra risk than what full tanks cause in other areas).
Strategies, more types open with refuelling than not.
Excitement, duh...
Overall, prohibiting refuelling was a dumb move. Just fix the minuscule safety issues (easily done) and let the teams decide if they want to refuel or not. Think Brabham 1982.

EDIT: LOL ninjaed! :p

[mep]

Maybe some people pay more attention to the strategies now and slowly understand how bad it is to have no refueling. There are no serious arguments against refueling.
The ban affects the race results in a very negative way as you saw one more time.
Drivers in superior cars like Alonso and Webber can try as hard as they want they have not the slightest chance to gain positions.
Just remember last years when we had refueling and the same amount of fuel for qualy and race. You could start from position 10 and still win the race.

[segedunum]

The difference is that with refueling there is a way to pass a car in front of you especially when it is much slower than yours. Without refueling there is no chance because overtaking on track is impossible.

I'm thinking people are not reading what's been written. We've seen just as much overtaking via the pits this season via differing pace on different tyres as we did with refuelling. The only difference with refuelling was that it was used much more as a means to keep a position than to gain one. The variables were too poor to make it really work, and we saw that consistently over fifteen years.

The track record of refulling, through getting cars to carry qualifying fuel into the race and published fuel weights just shows you how poor it has been. I'm afraid you'll have few takers wanting to bring refuelling back after the season we've had.

[mep]

There is absolutely nothing bad to pass a other car with a pit stop.
Bad is when you are stuck behind a slower car and have no option to pass it.
A pitstop pass with all the tactics involved can be even more exciting than a on track one. It just demands more brainpower of the fans to understand it and there seems to be the real problem.

[Mysticf1]

There is absolutely nothing bad to pass a other car with a pit stop.
Bad is when you are stuck behind a slower car and have no option to pass it.
A pitstop pass with all the tactics involved can be even more exciting than a on track one. It just demands more brainpower of the fans to understand it and there seems to be the real problem.

Completely agree, the time that went into explaining fuel strategies is now wasted on explaining the stupid tire rules...mandatory use of both compounds has always annoyed me and has generally been a failure this year.

[ringo]

The difference is that with refueling there is a way to pass a car in front of you especially when it is much slower than yours. Without refueling there is no chance because overtaking on track is impossible.

I'm thinking people are not reading what's been written. We've seen just as much overtaking via the pits this season via differing pace on different tyres as we did with refuelling. The only difference with refuelling was that it was used much more as a means to keep a position than to gain one. The variables were too poor to make it really work, and we saw that consistently over fifteen years.

The track record of refulling, through getting cars to carry qualifying fuel into the race and published fuel weights just shows you how poor it has been. I'm afraid you'll have few takers wanting to bring refuelling back after the season we've had.

Why are you bunching up refueling and race fuel qualy?
It's possible to have refueling and low fuel qualifying you know.

Things were much simpler then, and a lot more on the edge in terms of speed and excitement.
From observation refueling was better. That's my view on things.
It just provides more moments when something is happening.
Passing in the pits is not that bad either, becuase after passing in the pits, the passed car can still sprint to gain back his position with the pitted car on cold tyres. We saw this last year and it was exciting still.
There's something about racing against the clock that is more thrilling than running 40 laps with nothing going on, even if you're just racing the clock to refuel.

Refueling also added the excitement of a pitstop shoot out. When was the last time you saw one of those this year?
Canada was the last time i think 2 battling cars came into the pits the same time ti change tyres; i think Alonso and Lewis. Refueling definitely adds suspense to such events.

[komninosm]

There is absolutely nothing bad to pass a other car with a pit stop.
Bad is when you are stuck behind a slower car and have no option to pass it.
A pitstop pass with all the tactics involved can be even more exciting than a on track one. It just demands more brainpower of the fans to understand it and there seems to be the real problem.

Completely agree, the time that went into explaining fuel strategies is now wasted on explaining the stupid tire rules...mandatory use of both compounds has always annoyed me and has generally been a failure this year.

Man so true. Mandatory use of tires has to go. I remember when I was playing some old Formula 1 game (1997? it was decades ago, Damon Hill was in then lol) and it had tires labelled A B C and D (for dry). They were so clearly different tires, with clear performance gaps and endurance gaps. Can't they make tires like that for real? Instead of these soft tires that only grain and blister for a couple of laps and then are back in form and can last almost entire races.

[segedunum]

Why are you bunching up refueling and race fuel qualy?
It's possible to have refueling and low fuel qualifying you know.

Errrrrr, because that's exactly what happened to make refuelling more 'exciting'. Yes I know it's possible to have refuelling and low fuel qualifying........we had it and it was got rid of to avoid the fastest car qualifying on pole and simply short filling to maintain track position, turning every race into a total snorefest.

It's amazing the short memories people have.

[mep]

Why are you bunching up refueling and race fuel qualy?
It's possible to have refueling and low fuel qualifying you know.

Errrrrr, because that's exactly what happened to make refuelling more 'exciting'. Yes I know it's possible to have refuelling and low fuel qualifying........we had it and it was got rid of to avoid the fastest car qualifying on pole and simply short filling to maintain track position, turning every race into a total snorefest.

It's amazing the short memories people have.

Something must be wrong with your memories.
When we had low fuel qualy and refuelling the cars had to run as long as possible on track. The guy that pitted last usually won because he could set fast laps with low fuel. You should really think more about race strategies before arguing against refuelling here.

[xpensive]

@ Seg; As much as I support you when heckling the three-pointed star, that avatar of yours is utterly disgusting.

On topic, if refueling should be back, I would like to see the tub-breaking high-pressure systems of the 80s, filling the tank in two and change, not MrM's castrated FIA-units which kept failing all the time.

[Pingguest]

There is absolutely nothing bad to pass a other car with a pit stop.
Bad is when you are stuck behind a slower car and have no option to pass it.
A pitstop pass with all the tactics involved can be even more exciting than a on track one. It just demands more brainpower of the fans to understand it and there seems to be the real problem.

There's certainly something wrong with passing due to a pit stop: it's not overtaking. In fact, pit stops will stop drivers from overtaking each other. With mid-race refuelling a good driver should ask himself: why attempting a risky on-track pass while a 'safe' pit stop is likely to have the same result?

If anything should change, tyre changes should be banned too. Let drivers pass each other on-track and make them look after their car during the race. That's were they get paid for and that's why most people come to see a race.

It should be admitted that overtaking is currently too difficult, but I fail see why mid-race refuelling would be a solution. If Formula 1 needs more passing, close racing and on-track action, the solution is not to let all the action happen in the pit lane. The solution is to make passing, close racing and on-track action possible again, by non-artificial means of course.

[mep]

There is absolutely nothing bad to pass a other car with a pit stop.
Bad is when you are stuck behind a slower car and have no option to pass it.
A pitstop pass with all the tactics involved can be even more exciting than a on track one. It just demands more brainpower of the fans to understand it and there seems to be the real problem.

There's certainly something wrong with passing due to a pit stop: it's not overtaking. In fact, pit stops will stop drivers from overtaking each other. With mid-race refuelling a good driver should ask himself: why attempting a risky on-track pass while a 'safe' pit stop is likely to have the same result?

If anything should change, tyre changes should be banned too. Let drivers pass each other on-track and make them look after their car during the race. That's were they get paid for and that's why most people come to see a race.

It should be admitted that overtaking is currently too difficult, but I fail see why mid-race refuelling would be a solution. If Formula 1 needs more passing, close racing and on-track action, the solution is not to let all the action happen in the pit lane. The solution is to make passing, close racing and on-track action possible again, by non-artificial means of course.

Well you are watching the wrong race series. May I recomment you to watch WTCC?
There you have all the things you want to see. Short races with no pitstops, close racing, on track action, low aero, etc.
So why you don't watch this?
Formula 1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport so there is more needed than just driving in circles. The right race strategy is one of those points especially when the race starts to become chaotic.

[Pingguest]

There is absolutely nothing bad to pass a other car with a pit stop.
Bad is when you are stuck behind a slower car and have no option to pass it.
A pitstop pass with all the tactics involved can be even more exciting than a on track one. It just demands more brainpower of the fans to understand it and there seems to be the real problem.

There's certainly something wrong with passing due to a pit stop: it's not overtaking. In fact, pit stops will stop drivers from overtaking each other. With mid-race refuelling a good driver should ask himself: why attempting a risky on-track pass while a 'safe' pit stop is likely to have the same result?

If anything should change, tyre changes should be banned too. Let drivers pass each other on-track and make them look after their car during the race. That's were they get paid for and that's why most people come to see a race.

It should be admitted that overtaking is currently too difficult, but I fail see why mid-race refuelling would be a solution. If Formula 1 needs more passing, close racing and on-track action, the solution is not to let all the action happen in the pit lane. The solution is to make passing, close racing and on-track action possible again, by non-artificial means of course.

Well you are watching the wrong race series. May I recomment you to watch WTCC?
There you have all the things you want to see. Short races with no pitstops, close racing, on track action, low aero, etc.
So why you don't watch this?
Formula 1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport so there is more needed than just driving in circles. The right race strategy is one of those points especially when the race starts to become chaotic.

Indeed, the race strategy should be important. But that strategy should (mostly) be determined and executed by the driver, not by the team using a advanced software for determine the best possible refuelling strategy.

The presence of mid-race refuelling can't be that decisive whether Formula 1 is the 'pinnacle' of (open-wheel) racing. If it can though, what was Formula 1 from the mid-1950's until 1983 and from 1984 until 1994 then?

[manchild]

No, and I want obligatory tyre change banned to. Even more, I want to see introduction of tyres that can last whole race. Change allowed, but not obligatory.
Only one mixture, so let the drivers show their skills (as well as designers and mechanics who set up the car with tyrewear in mind).

Pit entrance should mean coming in to solve problems, as it used to be in the best days of motorsport.

[andrew]

So that means that the only ovrtaking will be in the first corner then we can all go do something else on a Sunday afternoon? No chance.

F1 races where tyres last the whole race will only work if the cars are slowed down, braking efficeny is reduced and downforce is reduced. We might get some overtaking then. As it stands the only overtaking is artificial through pitstops or a driver having tyre problems.