Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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MIKEY_!
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Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 03:07

Re: Why the cut outs ?

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All this makes sense but i have a further question... Why not make the endplates higher, as in continue them well above the height of the wing. This is permitted under the current regs and i think the high pressure flow above the wing would weaken with vertical distance from the wing surface so that the vortex is reduced.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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marekk
marekk
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 00:29

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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Image

As you can clearly see on this picture and contrary to common belief, rear wing vorticies (at least lower ones) are not shedded at endplates - they start at main plate, near the tip of the wing.

They increase drag, but on the other hand they create strong low pressure area, preventing flow separation near wing's and flap's tips, which increases RW efficiency. Endplate cutouts bring outside ambient pressure air closer to the underside of the wing and leave free space for the vorticies to build up. Sort of virtual endplate with added benefit of low pressure suction.
Stronger, closer to the endplate vorticies allow more agressive AoA.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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@marekk - that's one of the most fascinating pictures of an F1 car I've seen this year. Stunning!

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MIKEY_!
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Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 03:07

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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Scarb's explanation is good but why would this not work...

Image

The diagonal cut out on the right of my image would help prevent a vortex from forming just like a diagonal trailing edge on a wing because the high pressure flow is not going round an edge parallel to its flow. This means smoother flow/less drag/more downforce(i think).

The dotted outline above the right hand pic represents the alternative high endplate which i think would reduce the turbulence above the wing.

Can someone please give me a explanation of why my theory is completely wrong.

n_anirudh
n_anirudh
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 02:43

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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It all looks good in 2D, but vortex generation from the end plates is largely 3D.
The wing is in the wake region of the airbox sidepods etc,
and increasing surface area would increase skin friction drag (by a very very small amount).
lastly, the regulations do not allow wings/endplates to be above a certain height.

The idea is true, keeping the flow 2D as much as possible, but vortex creation will happen :)

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MIKEY_!
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Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 03:07

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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Yes of course they are in 3D (I considered this but its hard to draw 3D in MS Paint) but any little bit helps. Remember Ferrari's wing from Spain, possible because they tried to call them part of the endplates see the link below...

http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drive ... 1/860.html
(there may be detail in the regs i have missed here)
Sidepods are too low to disrupt the flow this high up and the airbox to central to have a major effect... not sure how these would contribute to a vortex anyway.

marekk
marekk
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 00:29

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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MIKEY_! wrote: The diagonal cut out on the right of my image would help prevent a vortex from forming just like a diagonal trailing edge on a wing because the high pressure flow is not going round an edge parallel to its flow.
Why not ?

If there is a pressure gradient (high to low in this case), air molecules will follow.

n_anirudh
n_anirudh
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008, 02:43

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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What I mean to state was that the flow is quite turbulent before it approaches the wing endplate system. Small surfaces sucg as mirrors, airbox, camera mountings produced their own mini vortices...

As Marekk said, vortices or a swirling packet of streamtubes will be formed as long as the pressure difference is sustained..

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MIKEY_!
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Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 03:07

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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Ahhh... how many times must i say it... this does not prevent the vortex but it will lessen the effect and strength. The further you are from the surface of the wing the less the pressure difference between air outside the endplates and air between. The diagonal cut means air wont flow around the top of the endplate at this point. this reduces the vortex. The flows will still interact but in a more laminar manner because they dont flow around (parallel) surface to meet each other.

marekk
marekk
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 00:29

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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MIKEY_! wrote:Ahhh... how many times must i say it... this does not prevent the vortex but it will lessen the effect and strength. The further you are from the surface of the wing the less the pressure difference between air outside the endplates and air between. The diagonal cut means air wont flow around the top of the endplate at this point. this reduces the vortex. The flows will still interact but in a more laminar manner because they dont flow around (parallel) surface to meet each other.
Behind any finite lifting body there are 3 regions of different pressure - ambient on the outside, (much) lower on the wings suction side and (slightly) higher an the pressure side. How big the differences are depends for the first approx only on the amount of generated lift (load).

Until you separate them with infinite endplates, they will eventually meet and change flows to become either turbulent or vortical (or both).

We tend often to forget, that at low mach numbers (lets say M < 0,3), as is the case with F1 car, these disturbances propagate almost instantly (well, with the speed of sound) in all directions - you can't just leave them behind and forget, they influence the flow in front of the wing and all the way back. That's why we call it induced drag.

You can influence amount of induced drag by controling type of generated disturbances (i.e. low vs high vorticity vortex) - but we are speaking about few percent - 3% of drag reduction from wing tip device is considered very good result in aviation. You have to substrate additional skin friction drag introduced by the endplates/fins/winglets from this.

On the other hand on the finite wing there will always by spanwise component of the flow (due to pressure difference behind the wing - local flows "know" they should start to follow those gradients behind). This means outer parts of the wing become less efficient, flows start to detach and so on ...

Very low aspect ratio of F1 wings make them very prone to those effects - they are very highly loaded, and lost of efficiency on even relatively small area of the wing means lots of downforce get lost.

One way to prevent this is to generate and maintain high vorticity vortex where the wing and enplate meet. High speed, very low pressure core of this vortex helps make outer part of the wing work.

As always it's the question of finding sweet spot between drag and downforce increase, but as we see, all current teams use cutouts, so IMO they go for slightly more drag and more downforce in reward - if not all to the same extend.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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Why the cutouts?

Yaw, boundary layer build up on the end plate on the low pressure side, etc. etc.

A lot of little things. but looking on the different shapes that the teams have, its seems mostly a black art.
For Sure!!

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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@ringo; might be cool and usefull if you could do a little CFD on these cutouts, taking Yaw and DRS into CFD. So one regular, one with yaw and one With DRS, probably gives a good view how it works.

@MIKEY; You forgot about one thing in your end plate idea, and that is the whole outside of the end plate consists of a similair pressure gradient. On the outside of the end plate you have the ambient pressure. The top of the wing got high pressure, the underside low pressure.

With this you get vortices that become even worse, apart from that you are already generating a huge vortext in between the end plates. At the trailing edge of the wing you have the point where low and high pressure mix, creating a vortex, an vortex that is locked between the end plates for a few cm's, this causes(and I am not sure here) huge drag penalty and possibly flow seperation. When the vortex finally reaches the end plate trailing edge it will meet the ambient pressure, here the pressure difference(although smaller) will again shed a vortex.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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Slightly off topic, but I don't think you can simulate yaw in CFD, can you? I mean, you can rotate the car (i.e. make a "crosswind") in CFD, but AFAIK you can't simulate the car going through an airflow in a changing direction
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wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Why the cut outs in rear wing endplates?

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raymondu999 wrote:Slightly off topic, but I don't think you can simulate yaw in CFD, can you? I mean, you can rotate the car (i.e. make a "crosswind") in CFD, but AFAIK you can't simulate the car going through an airflow in a changing direction
Of course you can, if you as F1 team arent able to do so then your CFD isnt really useful.

But i think that if you just turn the wing for 1 degree or so you could already simulate it pretty well as home user
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