Hamilton vs Button

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Paul Oz
0
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 10:50
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

marcush. wrote:
Shrieker wrote:I think if Lewis had Button's tyres instead of the crappy hard set, he could've given Vettel whole a lot more trouble and finished 2nd at the very least.It was a issue of tyre management for Hamilton throughout the weekend, not the race itself. He should've looked after his tyres better in quali cause that's what ultimately ruined his race - if his crappy tyres didn't have some sort of manufacturing defect.
IF is a long word in F1..
you cannot afford to waste a set of tyres to gain one spot on the grid.It´s tough but it´s the same set of rules for everyone.
I fear we will see less efort and risk in Q3 in the future now.The potential gain of having one more set of fresh softs for the race is just too important.I´d think thats easily one second per lap quicker in that stint for the same number of laps,one more attack /overtaking opportunity and maybe two more laps you can stay out....adding flexibility to your race strategy.
I think I agree.... it'll perhaps be just one do or die effort from the front runners for pole, and aiming to get into Q3 without needing softs. But on other tracks there will be smaller performance differentials between tyres.

One shift in focus I think this year with tyres I think will be away from making sure theres free air to slot back into, and more towards just stopping exactly when the tyres need changing. Is that what they cocked up with Lewis last weekend - stopping him before the tyres had gone off, thereby setting him out of kilter for the whole race? They did find the only 5 sec gap on the track if I remember rightly, but with no danger now of being stuck behind a one stopping car for the whole race and a big performance differential between worn/new tyres thereby allowing easier passing.... i think its not so important any more.....

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

As I recall, he actually did his 2nd pitstop AFTER Button did HIS 2nd pitstop. No?
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
Paul Oz
0
Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 10:50
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

raymondu999 wrote:As I recall, he actually did his 2nd pitstop AFTER Button did HIS 2nd pitstop. No?
You could be right.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

For comparison:

Lewis:
1st - lap 12 (12 lap stint)
2nd - lap 24 (12 lap stint)
3rd - lap 37 (13 lap stint)
4th - lap 52 (15 lap stint)
(4 lap stint)

Jenson:
1st - lap 13 (13 lap stint)
2nd - lap 23 (10 lap stint)
3rd - lap 38 (15 lap stint)
(18 laps)

So their stint lengths, in comparison, were
Lewis - Jenson
12 on softs - 13 on softs
12 on softs - 10 on softs
13 on hards - 15 on softs
15 on hards - 18 on hards
4 on hards

So on the softs they were pretty much equal on tyre deg. But Lewis couldn't make the hards last as long as Button's softs
Last edited by raymondu999 on 12 Apr 2011, 12:25, edited 1 time in total.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

With the tyres so vulnerable you just cannot afford to cut off the edge for a decent grid position.With KERS and DRS working well and a good straightline speed on most of the tracks Mclaren should have no issues moving forward...even though Heidfelds first stint makes you wonder...
So maybe it´s also a perfect getaway which is more important than grid position -see Schumacher /Rosberg, Heidfeld/ Petrov
Maybe one option is to stay out longer and do less stops when using up too many sets of tyres to get the Q1 and 2 .What did Kobayashi?

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

Well the whole point of grid position is so that you can get through the first corner first though. So qualifying alone isn't important, and a good getaway alone isn't important. Both have to be taken in tandem. Eg. starting on pole, with a bad getaway, or starting from 24th with a good getaway? It doesn't cut it just one way. You have to be good at both.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
Hangaku
0
Joined: 20 Apr 2009, 16:38
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

raymondu999 wrote:For comparison:

Lewis:
1st - lap 12 (12 lap stint)
2nd - lap 24 (12 lap stint)
3rd - lap 37 (13 lap stint)
4th - lap 52 (15 lap stint)
(4 lap stint)

Jenson:
1st - lap 13 (13 lap stint)
2nd - lap 23 (10 lap stint)
3rd - lap 38 (15 lap stint)
(18 laps)

So their stint lengths, in comparison, were
Lewis - Jenson
12 on softs - 13 on softs
12 on softs - 10 on softs
13 on hards - 15 on softs
15 on hards - 18 on hards
4 on hards

So on the softs they were pretty much equal on tyre deg. But Lewis couldn't make the hards last as long as Button's softs
Assuming they were all fresh sets of tires, which they allegedly were not. Without this information, the comparison is therefore flawed.
Yer.

enkidu
enkidu
0
Joined: 20 May 2007, 09:26

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

Its a shame McLaren didn't put the hard tyres on Button car at the second stop. I think we might have put the Red Bull under a bit more presure.

I can't wait till China!!

lolzi
lolzi
0
Joined: 22 Aug 2010, 14:08

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

enkidu wrote:Its a shame McLaren didn't put the hard tyres on Button car at the second stop. I think we might have put the Red Bull under a bit more presure.

I can't wait till China!!
"We"?

User avatar
Hangaku
0
Joined: 20 Apr 2009, 16:38
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

lolzi wrote:
enkidu wrote:Its a shame McLaren didn't put the hard tyres on Button car at the second stop. I think we might have put the Red Bull under a bit more presure.

I can't wait till China!!
"We"?
We all work at McLaren, didn't you know?
Yer.

lolzi
lolzi
0
Joined: 22 Aug 2010, 14:08

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

No, I didn't :(

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

lolzi wrote:No, I didn't :(
Careful not to talk about the dead zone :P
Hangaku wrote:Assuming they were all fresh sets of tires, which they allegedly were not. Without this information, the comparison is therefore flawed.
Why wouldn't they be fresh though? Do you know which sets are used/freshed?
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

Alexgtt
Alexgtt
8
Joined: 07 Feb 2011, 15:49
Location: UK

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

Button has already shown an advantage in his "management" of tyres and that will only increase through the year. As shown by the first two races it's much more about that than outright speed this year. If they can just get clean starts so they can have a free run at the RB's we'll see if they can get close to Vettel or not.

User avatar
SiLo
132
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

I think running behind Heidfield ruined Hamilton's entire race, as he was less able to run at his own pace and manage the tyres how he wanted. Maybe he he had dropped back a little bit he could of got them to go further.

It was also obvious that the hard tyres didn't last as long as the softs for some reason, so I couldn't figure out why they put him on hards for the second time round.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Hamilton vs Button

Post

The weird thing was everyone else including Button made them last longer than they did the softs though
失败者找理由,成功者找方法