Hamilton vs Button

[horse]

Careful not to talk about the dead zone

DON'T TALK ABOUT THE DEAD ZONE!

Seriously though, are we talking about Hamilton and Button or tyres? Because if it's tyres then the limited tyres rules are finally becoming significant, as we saw with Hamiliton missing some softs and possibly only have worn out hards to run on. Button looked after the tyres better the whole week end and it made the difference for his pace.

I think the relative merits of the two drivers have been long discussed and have changed little recently. Hamilton is a passionate driver who can get speed from a stone, but sometimes that exuberance costs him. Button is smooth and accurate and quick when the car has the same idea, but is incapable of muscling it around like Hamilton can. Interestingly, this makes two decent wet weather drivers but from completely opposite approaches.

It's much like Prost / Senna it terms of style, but luckily without the animosity (so far!).

[ringo]

HAmilton will beat button in 80% of the races.
As soon as Hamilton messes up and button somehow finishes ahead people think there is hope for button beating him.
It is not so, neither is he more brainier, have better race pace etc and all these little things people try to atribute to button; that showed in australia.

Mclaren gave hamilton the wrong tyres. They gave him a used tyre on the second stop, when it should have been the new tyre and the used one just in case he needed them at the end.
Also he was supposed to save the soft for last; start on soft, hard, soft, hard. So the team messed him up.
It was never about tyre management being a problem, he mad the softs last longer in the second stint and he also was faster than button when he was on hard and button was on soft.
They just gave him a used tyre that was slow from the beginning.

Just like Massa and all the #2 drivers, Their teammates will beat them resoundingly.
So similar to last year, Button only chance is Mclaren messing up Hamilton, as it seems Hamilton doesn't even do it to himself this year.

[ringo]

Its a shame McLaren didn't put the hard tyres on Button car at the second stop. I think we might have put the Red Bull under a bit more presure.

I can't wait till China!!

Button cannot do that. He doesn't have the speed.
Didn't you hear what vettel said in the conference?

He only fears hamilton, and began to relax when he heard button was behind.
Should have seen the look on Button's face.

I think it's time Mclaren put more care with hamilton's race and pitstops.
He's the only one who can stop vettel outside of Alonso.
Ferrari are doing the right thing in having Alonso as the primary weapon.
Mclaren need to do this if they are to beat Vettel.

Button doesn't have the raw speed. Vettel will easily manage him.
If you can't get on the front row, or if you can't run hard and fast laps near the start of the race, Vettel will be gone. There's no catching him in the end.

[raymondu999]

Also he was supposed to save the soft for last; start on soft, hard, soft, hard. So the team messed him up.

You know this... how, exactly?

[ringo]

I think if Lewis had Button's tyres instead of the crappy hard set, he could've given Vettel whole a lot more trouble and finished 2nd at the very least.It was a issue of tyre management for Hamilton throughout the weekend, not the race itself. He should've looked after his tyres better in quali cause that's what ultimately ruined his race - if his crappy tyres didn't have some sort of manufacturing defect, that is.

In a way he had to manage them better. But why did mclaren give him a new set at his last pitstop?
Why not give him those in the heat of the battle?

You see where the team messed up now. So i wouldn't blame him at all. start soft, hard, soft, hard would have worked without using the used set. There would have been no wear issues. The team just messed up his race.
I think they only went soft in the second stint because they felt it would rain later, and they probably used the used tyres as a mistake , as there was no rain expected to force them to come earlier and go onto inters or wets.

[raymondu999]

Why would the team strategise for Hamilton to go 2-soft 2-hard stops though? When Button did 3-soft 1-hard, as the other 3 stoppers all did

[horse]

I thought Hamilton cooked (flat spotted) a set of softs in qualifying. I'm sure this is why is was one set down on Button.

[rifrafs2kees]

I've had the mindset that Lewis's side of the garage isn't up to par with Button's. However, after this race, I have begun to think that Lewis's driving style actually puts a lot of pressure on his race engineer, where as Button's can relax and make sound calls. How many times has Button been overtaken and yet he climbs way up? Race management isn't his forte and what he needs is a "Schumacher era" Ross Brawn...a good race strategist won't do....he needs the absolute best if he's to excel on the current tires

[raymondu999]

I'm getting lost towards the end of your post mate. Who are you talking about?

[rifrafs2kees]

In other words Button's strengths, which are consistency plus not so shabby speed, are a lot easier to work with from a race engineer stand point. If I can use this anology, let's imagine that one can translate speed, tire condition, driver temperament and so on, into anolog graphs. Hamilton's may have the better mean value overall but also a much higher standard of deviation. With hamilton, you'll have to work hard to come up with the best possible peak at the right time, the right time being the end of the race. So what seams to be an easy decision on Button's side of the garage is a more complex issue on hamilton's side. Hope I'm clear

[PlatinumZealot]

Hamilton was supposed to run an aggressive strategy. He was supposed to have:

Soft
Hard
Soft
Hard

He already knew he had 2 softs from the begining!

The thing that messed him up was the team putting on the softs at the second stint and giving him old worn out 20 lap hards on the fourth stint instead of a new fresh set of hards. So mclaren basically screwed up with Hamilton for the zillionth time...

As for Button, I will acknowledge him when he can beat Hamilton in a straight fight.

[raymondu999]

Question. How do you know he was supposed to go soft-hard-soft-hard? And how do you know that those were 20 lap old hards?

[Paul Oz]

Question. How do you know he was supposed to go soft-hard-soft-hard? And how do you know that those were 20 lap old hards?

Any why on earth would he be on 20 lap old hards - he had 3 sets of hards used for 1 flying lap in quali available to him? If they were 20 laps old.... they would have been destroyed already, not just worn.

[paipa]

And how do you know that those were 20 lap old hards?

Although I don't buy it myself without an official report, it's true that the timesheets sort of point to something like that (if not 20 lap old). His times not only didn't improve by the normal ~2 seconds after his 3rd stop, but in fact dropped by 0.6s despite being 13 laps lighter than in the previous stint. Then everything back to speed for the last 4 laps.

So 2 seconds are missing in that prime stint and while it could be extremely cautious driving, it could just as well suggest faulty/worn tyres. But definitely NOT setup or chewing-em-up.

[marcush.]

we don´t know if this is a weakness in terms of the engineers or a hamilton thing.Smedley with Massa is a clear thing .Rob is the coach and eyes and guides Felipe through the race ...but hows Lewis treating things?
I could imagine that he´s a lot on his own island ,especially after the liegate events when he had to stand up for weird things demanded from him by his pitguys .Things like that can easily put a driver in the wrong frame of mind...he quite often seems a bit desperate in his communication with the pitwall?
I think the open insula engineering desk in Mclarens pits has eased that a little bit but the communication and the coaching could improve his racing.Maybe BVutton is more open to hear and trust his pit?