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Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 17 May 2023, 12:39
by Just_a_fan
etusch wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 11:45
Another hydrogen project. These are signs of limits of battery powered electric vehicles.
All types of vehicles have limits, even ICE powered ones.
The best outcome will be one that matches energy storage systems to the use case so that the best one is used in each case. For example, buses and vehicles that serve inner city areas are likely best powered by batteries. Long distance transport is currently best powered by an ICE of some form likely using "green fuel" or hydrogen.
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 17 May 2023, 22:56
by gruntguru
etusch wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 11:45
Another hydrogen project. These are signs of limits of battery powered electric vehicles. Maybe they don't see much improvement room for batteries.
and maybe not. There are a lot of research teams investigating a range of different solutions. We will probably converge on the best solution for each application eventually.
We are a long, long way from pushing the limits of battery technology and even further away from finding a better alternative for on-road applications.
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 02:17
by Zynerji
gruntguru wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 22:56
etusch wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 11:45
Another hydrogen project. These are signs of limits of battery powered electric vehicles. Maybe they don't see much improvement room for batteries.
and maybe not. There are a lot of research teams investigating a range of different solutions. We will probably converge on the best solution for each application eventually.
We are a long, long way from pushing the limits of battery technology and even further away from finding a better alternative for on-road applications.
Battery tech and the cure for cancer has soaked up trillions already. Where is the actual progress?!?
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 03:08
by gruntguru
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 02:17
gruntguru wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 22:56
etusch wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 11:45
Another hydrogen project. These are signs of limits of battery powered electric vehicles. Maybe they don't see much improvement room for batteries.
and maybe not. There are a lot of research teams investigating a range of different solutions. We will probably converge on the best solution for each application eventually.
We are a long, long way from pushing the limits of battery technology and even further away from finding a better alternative for on-road applications.
Battery tech and the cure for cancer has soaked up trillions already. Where is the actual progress?!?
Ever heard of Google?

Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 03:42
by Zynerji
gruntguru wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 03:08
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 02:17
gruntguru wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 22:56
and maybe not. There are a lot of research teams investigating a range of different solutions. We will probably converge on the best solution for each application eventually.
We are a long, long way from pushing the limits of battery technology and even further away from finding a better alternative for on-road applications.
Battery tech and the cure for cancer has soaked up trillions already. Where is the actual progress?!?
Ever heard of Google?
https://i.imgur.com/gjJkJtJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/QztjPrL.png
I think you missed the meme

Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 04:09
by vorticism
Tesla cell density over the past decade:
F1 cell density can be guessed at. As you know, 4 MJ usable, but no upper limit on capacity. 20-25 kg specified cell weight range.
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 12:20
by Big Tea
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 02:17
gruntguru wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 22:56
etusch wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 11:45
Another hydrogen project. These are signs of limits of battery powered electric vehicles. Maybe they don't see much improvement room for batteries.
and maybe not. There are a lot of research teams investigating a range of different solutions. We will probably converge on the best solution for each application eventually.
We are a long, long way from pushing the limits of battery technology and even further away from finding a better alternative for on-road applications.
Battery tech and the cure for cancer has soaked up trillions already. Where is the actual progress?!?
As a 3 time cancer survivor, I can state categorically it IS happening
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 15:44
by Zynerji
Big Tea wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 12:20
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 02:17
gruntguru wrote: ↑17 May 2023, 22:56
and maybe not. There are a lot of research teams investigating a range of different solutions. We will probably converge on the best solution for each application eventually.
We are a long, long way from pushing the limits of battery technology and even further away from finding a better alternative for on-road applications.
Battery tech and the cure for cancer has soaked up trillions already. Where is the actual progress?!?
As a 3 time cancer survivor, I can state categorically it IS happening
I'm always happy to hear a success story! The only question I have is about what treatment worked for you, and when was it invented? My family suffers tremendously from cancer. It seems like they all are going through the same treatment plan that their parents went through 25 years ago. I'd love to turn them on to something new that you have found effective!
PM me please!
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 15:52
by Big Tea
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 15:44
Big Tea wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 12:20
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 02:17
Battery tech and the cure for cancer has soaked up trillions already. Where is the actual progress?!?
As a 3 time cancer survivor, I can state categorically it IS happening
I'm always happy to hear a success story! The only question I have is about what treatment worked for you, and when was it invented? My family suffers tremendously from cancer. It seems like they all are going through the same treatment plan that their parents went through 25 years ago. I'd love to turn them on to something new that you have found effective!
Seems that due to the many 'types', it is procedures that differed not (famous) silver bullets. (Somewhat like F1 really)
The old adage of no knowledge is useless is true as there are many things brought in from other fields.
I like to mention my good fortune as often as possible hoping other suffers hear and gain hope as despair is as bad as the disease, so pleas pardon my bringing it up, but just hope it helps someone. (BTW, I had Oxyplatin among others if this helps? but as above it is so varied)
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 22:46
by gruntguru
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 15:44
My family suffers tremendously from cancer. It seems like they all are going through the same treatment plan that their parents went through 25 years ago.
True, but although there are new cancer treatments appearing all the time (gene therapy, immunotherapy, stem cell therapy) many cancers are still stuck with older treatment techniques, however through refinement, even these treatments have improved dramatically. Better technique, new chemotherapy drugs, new combinations of chemotherapy drugs etc.
EVs are still using Li ion batteries 15 years later - yet energy density is eight times greater!
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 22:58
by Big Tea
gruntguru wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 22:46
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 15:44
My family suffers tremendously from cancer. It seems like they all are going through the same treatment plan that their parents went through 25 years ago.
True, but although there are new cancer treatments appearing all the time (gene therapy, immunotherapy, stem cell therapy) many cancers are still stuck with older treatment techniques, however through refinement, even these treatments have improved dramatically. Better technique, new chemotherapy drugs, new combinations of chemotherapy drugs etc.
EVs are still using Li ion batteries 15 years later - yet energy density is eight times greater!
I recall using 2 'D' cell batteries to run a flashlight for 20 odd min. I now use 2 'AAA' cell to run a lamp many times as bright for the better part of 2 hrs. Same chemistry, but miles apart in application
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 22:59
by dialtone
Big Tea wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 22:58
gruntguru wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 22:46
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 15:44
My family suffers tremendously from cancer. It seems like they all are going through the same treatment plan that their parents went through 25 years ago.
True, but although there are new cancer treatments appearing all the time (gene therapy, immunotherapy, stem cell therapy) many cancers are still stuck with older treatment techniques, however through refinement, even these treatments have improved dramatically. Better technique, new chemotherapy drugs, new combinations of chemotherapy drugs etc.
EVs are still using Li ion batteries 15 years later - yet energy density is eight times greater!
I recall using 2 'D' cell batteries to run a flashlight for 20 odd min. I now use 2 'AAA' cell to run a lamp many times as bright for the better part of 2 hrs. Same chemistry, but miles apart in application
modern flashlights are all LEDs though.
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 23:39
by Just_a_fan
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 15:44
Big Tea wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 12:20
Zynerji wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 02:17
Battery tech and the cure for cancer has soaked up trillions already. Where is the actual progress?!?
As a 3 time cancer survivor, I can state categorically it IS happening
I'm always happy to hear a success story! The only question I have is about what treatment worked for you, and when was it invented? My family suffers tremendously from cancer. It seems like they all are going through the same treatment plan that their parents went through 25 years ago. I'd love to turn them on to something new that you have found effective!
PM me please!
Newer treatments are usually more expensive which can be a hurdle in some places. Also, not all treatments are licenced in every jurisdiction - that will impact treatment plans and success too.
In the UK we often hear about "Wonder drug X" that isn't available because TPTB have decided it's too expensive per treatment.

Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 18 May 2023, 23:40
by Big Tea
dialtone wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 22:59
Big Tea wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 22:58
gruntguru wrote: ↑18 May 2023, 22:46
True, but although there are new cancer treatments appearing all the time (gene therapy, immunotherapy, stem cell therapy) many cancers are still stuck with older treatment techniques, however through refinement, even these treatments have improved dramatically. Better technique, new chemotherapy drugs, new combinations of chemotherapy drugs etc.
EVs are still using Li ion batteries 15 years later - yet energy density is eight times greater!
I recall using 2 'D' cell batteries to run a flashlight for 20 odd min. I now use 2 'AAA' cell to run a lamp many times as bright for the better part of 2 hrs. Same chemistry, but miles apart in application
modern flashlights are all LEDs though.
Of course. That's the innovation. As far as they knew 100 years ago there was no workable replacement for the filament just as we believe there is no replacement for the 'electric motor' we have today.
Re: European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035
Posted: 19 May 2023, 01:15
by gruntguru
Unfortunately electric motors are already at more than 90% efficiency whereas the old incandescent bulb was less than 5%. Any significant improvement in EV range, mass or cost will need to be in the energy storage system.