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Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 16:41
by godlameroso
muramasa wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 13:20
That's wrong.
There are 3 inlet pipes for each bank.
"4" in that pic goes to 2nd cylinder or middle one on the right
"3" in that pic goes to 3rd cylinder or the right rear
ditto for left bank
There is a 3rd inlet pipe below "3" in that pic
of course this goes to 1st cylinder or right front
ditto for left
Not clear from pics because the thing is black and in the dark/shadow but in person it's easy to distinguish. The pipes are bent quite a bit.
btw MGU-H is directly attached/coupled to the compressor, which is also easy to see in person.
How big is the MGU-H?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 18:10
by NL_Fer
If the square boxes are ignition coils, where are the fuel injectors supply rail?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 19:03
by godlameroso
NL_Fer wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 18:10
If the square boxes are ignition coils, where are the fuel injectors supply rail?
Probably below the intake runners?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 19:24
by dren
NL_Fer wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 18:10
If the square boxes are ignition coils, where are the fuel injectors supply rail?
I think the fuel pumps are driven off of the cam shaft on both sides.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 20:26
by 63l8qrrfy6
dren wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 19:24
NL_Fer wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 18:10
If the square boxes are ignition coils, where are the fuel injectors supply rail?
I think the fuel pumps are driven off of the cam shaft on both sides.
I think there's just one fuel pump. It's the same size and shape as Merc's and they only have one. Also they have the injectors underneath the exhaust manifold so judging by what I've seen so far I wouldn't be surprised if they have copied that too.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 23:23
by PlatinumZealot
gruntguru wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 01:42
1. (Mainly for the benefit of some other posters) HCCI is nothing like diesel. Air and fuel are pre-mixed and ignition happens whenever the temperature of the mix gets high enough for it to ignite (very difficult to control). Ignition occurs simultaneously at many points across the chamber hence the rapid complete burn without knock. (Knock is when the burn progresses across the chamber at the speed of sound.)
2. Ignition timing can be controlled by varying: Pressure (boost or CR), Charge temperature, AFR or (maybe) turbulence.
3. HCCI is not speed limited. Accurate timing may be more difficult since the window of optimum timing which is only a few degrees wide gets narrower (as measured in milliseconds) as rpm increases. The most common example of HCCI is the "Diesel" model engine with adjustable CR. These things can turn very high rpm.
4. TJI is a step towards HCCI efficiency. It produces very rapid combustion (not quite as rapid as HCCI) but doesn't have the ignition timing accuracy problem (ignition begins with a spark).
OK interesting points, 2 and 3 there.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 23:25
by PlatinumZealot
Mudflap wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 11:59
The bearing housing is most likely a separate component bolted to the turbine housing and probably watercooled. Just because the turbine housing is really well insulated doesn't have to mean that the bearings run extremely hot.
There is of course a tradeoff between how close the bearing can be to the turbine wheel. Too close and it gets hot, too far and the whirl frequency drops.
Bearing issues are due to the rotor operating super-critically and being inadequately balanced and/or insufficiently damped.
The heat shield in turbochargers work surprisingly well, I was informed. I can imagine honda taking a step further and polishing the inside of the turbo scroll to reflect heat?
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 23:33
by PlatinumZealot
Why is the fuel piping going into the valve cover (on the left side)?
I see the cam driven pump on the right.(or maybe it's just something else bolted to the valve cover?) but.. look.. no fuel lines to be seen otherwise? hmm..
Those spark plugs might be combination injectors.. TJI... with an internal passage built into the valve cover that goes into the injectors from there?
Or maybe i am just crazy, and the injector are side entry hidden from view..
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 01:22
by ringo
The pump on the cylinder head may be the high pressure pump. It's likely there is a low pressure lift pump upstream.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 03:51
by Squid
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 03:55
by godlameroso
Spec 4?! Let it be! Grid penalties be damned, if it is spec 4 this is a good move.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 04:50
by makecry
godlameroso wrote: ↑07 Oct 2017, 03:55
Spec 4?! Let it be! Grid penalties be damned, if it is spec 4 this is a good move.
3.7 confirmed. Spec 4 isn't even ready yet. Disaster.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 05:13
by DFX
makecry wrote: ↑07 Oct 2017, 04:50
godlameroso wrote: ↑07 Oct 2017, 03:55
Spec 4?! Let it be! Grid penalties be damned, if it is spec 4 this is a good move.
3.7 confirmed. Spec 4 isn't even ready yet. Disaster.
Are you sure? Im watching right now and looks like the engine noise is different, a higher pitch maybe..
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 05:15
by makecry
DFX wrote: ↑07 Oct 2017, 05:13
makecry wrote: ↑07 Oct 2017, 04:50
godlameroso wrote: ↑07 Oct 2017, 03:55
Spec 4?! Let it be! Grid penalties be damned, if it is spec 4 this is a good move.
3.7 confirmed. Spec 4 isn't even ready yet. Disaster.
Are you sure? Im watching right now and looks like the engine noise is different, a higher pitch maybe..
Source is AMuS.
Re: Honda Power Unit
Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 08:00
by harjan
Honda will never run 'Spec 4', not this year, not next year. Current engine will be platform from which they develop onto next year.