F1technical.net

SonicBoom wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 12:57

MtthsMlw wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 12:23

Cuky wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 12:10

as they said on SkyF1 FIA checked Ferrari's ERS system both at Baku and Barcelona and found nothing wrong. Some teams argued that FIA sensor can be bypassed so FIA asked Ferrari to put an additional sensor in their car just for FP1 so that they can check if everything is in order and Ferrari happily obliged stating that they have nothing to hide

AMuS reported that Ferrari is using a different software to enforce the limit of 4MJ and not a sensor.

What, I don't understand this, are you saying that Ferrari is not using a sensor for monitoring their energy usage? Which would mean their essentially running open loop system in "software"?

No they are using the normal FIA sensor but the question is if they are able to bypass it. Seems like the FIA gave them some software to ensure there is no bypassing. Of course no idea how this works exactly.

It's funny how the complete lack of any official communication regarding the matter leads the Ferrari supporters to believe their team is being treated unfairly whilst fans of opposing teams see the supposed changes to their software/hardware/??? as confirmation that there was something going on with their ERS system ...

How about just waiting for more information?

I did not manage to watch FP.

Did anybody see if the Ferrari still smokes?

To me this story about the ERS is a big journalistic nothing burger, just like the “mystery paddle” on Vettel’s steering wheel. FIA has judged the car already to be legal on multiple occasions.

The FIA and the teams are all part of the same organisation. It is not in any parties interest to make public information which has anybody look bad. And rightly so.

We will never know what Ferrari did and we will never know how it was stopped.

What will will know, is how much this affects them on track by their pace.

And in terms of the oil burn stuff and talk of using the turbo. Again we will never know, but if it all of a sudden stops smoking, its probably safe to say they were doing something that was illegal and has now stopped.

All in all, lets see the speed of the car, especially in Q3. And I also mean over the coming races, we can't base any pace change on one (especially Monaco).

RZS10 wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 13:00

It's funny how the complete lack of any official communication regarding the matter leads the Ferrari supporters to believe their team is being treated unfairly whilst fans of opposing teams see the supposed changes to their software/hardware/??? as confirmation that there was something going on with their ERS system ...

How about just waiting for more information?

100%. But Merc did file a clarification about a system and the FIA made a device that would close the loop. Any tech savy here as any idea on a way to send "MOAR POWER!" to the MGU-K without being monitored.

Phil wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 11:38

The competition claims that GPS data showed that in qualifying in Baku, Ferrari had a burst of around 20hp and gave up to 3 tenths advantage. In Barcelona this wasn't the case anymore, probably due to the fact others were already suspicious about it.

Jeez bursts of how long? I mean gaining 3 tenths with only bursts of 20hp seems a lot no? How much does one theoretically gain for 20hp for the whole lap?

If its 20 BHP extra over the entire usable rev range, rather than peak and for the full lap. Then 0.3 doesn't sound too unrealistic to me on such a long straight.

By this I mean, if when they say burst, they class a lap as a burst. They did a one lap full power burst in Q3 for example.

RZS10 wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 13:00

It's funny how the complete lack of any official communication regarding the matter leads the Ferrari supporters to believe their team is being treated unfairly whilst fans of opposing teams see the supposed changes to their software/hardware/??? as confirmation that there was something going on with their ERS system ...

How about just waiting for more information?

I honestly don't get the hostility. F1 is data driven. Every tenth counts. Every detail. Making use of any possible advantage is crucial to winning. If we learned anything by the flexi-wing saga, is that some things are hard to monitor and that teams will go to the limits in exploiting things they can get away it. Same applies to the battery. If Ferrari found a way to bypass the FIA sensors, good for them. Is it cheating? That's a topic that doesn't belong in this topic, but is perhaps for another topic all together. In here, I think the focus should be in understanding what exactly they are doing to all learn something and discuss it on a technical basis.

Therefore, the entire talk about being untreated unfairly etc are simply noise best ignored. The technical stuff is way more interesting; e.g. how do they do it? What advantage is gained? What can the FIA do to stop it?

Big Mangalhit wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 13:53

RZS10 wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 13:00

It's funny how the complete lack of any official communication regarding the matter leads the Ferrari supporters to believe their team is being treated unfairly whilst fans of opposing teams see the supposed changes to their software/hardware/??? as confirmation that there was something going on with their ERS system ...

How about just waiting for more information?

100%. But Merc did file a clarification about a system and the FIA made a device that would close the loop. Any tech savy here as any idea on a way to send "MOAR POWER!" to the MGU-K without being monitored.

You'd have to find a way to exploit any flaws in the ECU's hardware or software design to find a way to send more power to the MGU-K without it being detected by the sensors. Then you'd have to be careful about how you deploy that extra power so not to rouse the suspicions of other teams. But given how the rules are set out, it's the kind of move that risks being rumbled by the FIA eventually. I'm not sure if it's actually worth doing, when you can probably find a lot of time through refining the software for the Power Unit as a whole. To get these PU's to work efficiently you have to get all the parts working together in harmony.

djones wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 13:47

The FIA and the teams are all part of the same organisation. It is not in any parties interest to make public information which has anybody look bad. And rightly so.

We will never know what Ferrari did and we will never know how it was stopped.

What will will know, is how much this affects them on track by their pace.

And in terms of the oil burn stuff and talk of using the turbo. Again we will never know, but if it all of a sudden stops smoking, its probably safe to say they were doing something that was illegal and has now stopped.

All in all, lets see the speed of the car, especially in Q3. And I also mean over the coming races, we can't base any pace change on one (especially Monaco).

No, the FIA needs to be transparent so that rumours don't take wing.

As far as I'm concerned, the story of some sort of gadget fixed to the Ferrari to check electrical power output is a mere rumour, because it has not come from an official source. It is the same for the oil burning stories.

The most authoritative news about Ferrari's battery configuration has come from Niki Lauda's complaint that the FIA takes too long to investigate issues; to Mercedes fans, this gives teeth to claims of illegality by Ferrari, even though there has been no official word. It is unprofessional for the FIA to allow things like this to happen.

F1 still has the old boy, smoke filled tobacco room, part my back, I part yours image from the Max Mosly-Bernnie Ecclestone era. Its really unfortunate.

Phil wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 14:07

... F1 is data driven ... The technical stuff is way more interesting; e.g. how do they do it? What advantage is gained? What can the FIA do to stop it?

Exactly. Its more like what bugs are there in the software/hardware algorithms that drive the FIA sensors? What data busses are available to the sensors and what data can be spoofed? Is it possible that difficult to detect devices, eg opto electrical, audio, hydraulic circuits, jamming devices etc can be used to thwart FIA systems?

The FIA simply needs to be upfront, open and transparent about what the problem is; and rather than fit devices in a clandestine manner (if that is not just a rumour), they need to get experts to rip the Ferrari cars apart, bolt by bolt, in a way that would leave no doubts. For fairness, they would need to do this to all other top cars too.

☝ looooool

djones wrote: ↑

24 May 2018, 13:19

I did not manage to watch FP.

Did anybody see if the Ferrari still smokes?

I saw one of them smoking at the end of FP2 when they lined up on the grid for practice starts.