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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:18
by mertol
Wynters wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:11
Qualified immunity and the relative lack of consequences that officers involved in these events face suggest that, whilst it may not be actively encouraged, the institution does turn a blind, even protective, eye.
Still don't see where race comes into this. And if it was such a big problem surely they could find someone that hasn't threatened a pregnant woman to be the face of the campaign.
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:19
by Phil
Mileage may vary. But in my personal experience, it has never been a good idea to stand up against people with authoritative power over me (especially those that also hold guns). Perhaps vocally, raising concerns, maybe. But anything beyond that? No chance. But I can definitely see where the view point that 'mileage may vary' may cause harm in certain countries if one believes they can stand up in futile situations that serve nothing better than to escalate a situation rather than de-escalate.
Just think of the difference in standing up against police, in for example; a border (border control), a sports stadium after a game, on the street by a routine patrol or at the airport. The consequences may vary, but in either of these cases, it's never a good idea and it certainly has/should have nothing to do with race, skin color or ethnicity.
Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:23
by Just_a_fan
V12-POWER wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 13:27
You all need to stop watching mainstream medias and do your own research, there's endless information for you to tie the dots and realize this black lives matter movement is a smoke screen, the real purpose is to make politics against the Republican party
Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:23
by Wynters
V12-POWER wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:08
My stance is clear in the post, call it however you want, doesn't change the fact that BLM movement is way out of proportion and hides the real purpose of it.
What is the proportionate response to decades of extra-judicial killings?
Have those responses already been tried?
Why do you think that the real purpose of a movement sparked by an extra-judicial killing (under the Democrats) and founded years before the Republicans came to power, "is to make politics against the Republican party"? Were the original protests, during the Obama administration, just a clever decoy to hide their true purpose?
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:27
by Just_a_fan
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:18
Wynters wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:11
Qualified immunity and the relative lack of consequences that officers involved in these events face suggest that, whilst it may not be actively encouraged, the institution does turn a blind, even protective, eye.
Still don't see where race comes into this. And if it was such a big problem surely they could find someone that hasn't threatened a pregnant woman to be the face of the campaign.
Straw man argument. Floyd's other crimes aren't relevant, are they? Or is someone having done wrong in the past sufficient to allow summary killing by police on the street?
This death was the straw that broke the camel's back, caused the dam to break, etc.
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:32
by Wynters
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:18
Still don't see where race comes into this.
If, over a sustained period of time, the killings have disproportionately impacted one (or several) races then there may be a pattern.
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:18
And if it was such a big problem surely they could find someone that hasn't threatened a pregnant woman to be the face of the campaign.
Perhaps you could provide links to all the camera footage of other extra-judicial killings of defenseless citizens that occurred recently so that a 'more deserving' person could be identified?
Out of interest, what other past crimes should excuse an extra-judicial killing? I would suggest that speeding is significantly more dangerous than threatening someone. Have you or any family member ever broken the speed limit? Do you think that being slowly choked to death would later be acceptable?
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:38
by mertol
Wynters wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:32
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:18
Still don't see where race comes into this.
If, over a sustained period of time, the killings have disproportionately impacted one (or several) races then there may be a pattern.
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:18
And if it was such a big problem surely they could find someone that hasn't threatened a pregnant woman to be the face of the campaign.
Perhaps you could provide links to all the camera footage of other extra-judicial killings of defenseless citizens that occurred recently so that a 'more deserving' person could be identified?
Out of interest, what other past crimes should excuse an extra-judicial killing? I would suggest that speeding is significantly more dangerous than threatening someone. Have you or any family member ever broken the speed limit? Do you think that being slowly choked to death would later be acceptable?
They didn't disproportionately affect them.
I wouldn't get choked because I wouldn't resists arrest. And yes it is completely acceptable to use force against someone resisting arrest. Especially someone who is stronger than you and on drugs and doesn't feel any pain. Even if killed on purpose in that particular case the guy had a beef with the cop from before and the incident has nothing to do with race.
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:42
by Wynters
Phil wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:19
Mileage may vary. But in my personal experience, it has never been a good idea to stand up against people with authoritative power over me (especially those that also hold guns). Perhaps vocally, raising concerns, maybe. But anything beyond that? No chance. But I can definitely see where the view point that 'mileage may vary' may cause harm in certain countries if one believes they can stand up in futile situations that serve nothing better than to escalate a situation rather than de-escalate.
Just think of the difference in standing up against police, in for example; a border (border control), a sports stadium after a game, on the street by a routine patrol or at the airport. The consequences may vary, but in either of these cases, it's never a good idea and it certainly has/should have nothing to do with race, skin color or ethnicity.
I agree, being involved in such a massive power imbalance will almost always see some sort of negative outcome for the individual. However, some people may have the view that, in specific instances, standing up to authority is a good idea (e.g. The Boston Globe and the Catholic Church, Woodward and Bernstein and the President of the United States, etc, etc).
However, the question at the heart of this isn't 'Is standing up to the police a good idea?', it's 'should I be killed for standing up to the police / kneeling and raising my hands / running away / rolling around on the floor whilst handcuffed / reaching for my licence when asked to do so by the police / etc, etc'.
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:46
by PlatinumZealot
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 13:08
They segregate themselves tho. Anything that happens they blame race.
Pure rubbish. Ignorant rubbish.
It's obvious you have not been in any position to understand. You think you know, but you clearly dont!
I can't force you to educate yourself. I'm out of this thread now. It is race week! Back to the racing!
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:53
by Wynters
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:38
They didn't disproportionately affect them.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
"Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites."
There are endless other sources that also suggest you are incorrect.
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:38
I wouldn't get choked because I wouldn't resists arrest.
You wouldn't reach for your driving licence if the police asked you to? You wouldn't kneel on the ground and raise your hands if the police asked you to?
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:38
And yes it is completely acceptable to use force against someone resisting arrest. Especially someone who is stronger than you and on drugs and doesn't feel any pain.
'use force' isn't the point though, is it?
Is it acceptable to kill someone who is lying on the ground, unarmed and handcuffed whilst surrounded by multiple officers and has been no threat for an extended period of time?
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 14:58
by mertol
This one liner can't prove being disproportionate. The rest of your post is not relevant because it would be the same for any race.
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 15:00
by Wynters
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:58
This one liner can't prove being disproportionate. The rest of your post is not relevant because it would be the same for any race.
The speed at which you read not only the study I linked but all the other studies that came to the same conclusion is astounding! Perhaps you could provide the references that disprove the data the study used?
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 15:02
by mertol
I don't have to prove anything. You are the one with the extraordinary claim.
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 15:04
by Phil
Wynters wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:53
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:38
They didn't disproportionately affect them.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
"Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites."
There are endless other sources that also suggest you are incorrect.
Isn't criminality also higher among blacks?
Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism
Posted: 30 Jun 2020, 15:07
by mertol
Phil wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 15:04
Wynters wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:53
mertol wrote: ↑30 Jun 2020, 14:38
They didn't disproportionately affect them.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
"Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites."
There are endless other sources that also suggest you are incorrect.
Isn't criminality also higher among blacks?
Of course it is. Any bias towards searching black people is the cops just being efficient from experience
. The victims are also 96% male but I don't see you crying about that being disproportionate. Or you having any trouble believing males are more likely to be criminals.